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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: I welcome our guests. Despite the ginormous figures we deal with these days, the loss of €5 million of taxpayers’ money is very serious, as the witnesses accept, when there are so many socially reforming things it could achieve that would matter to people. The NTMA said in its opening statement that this was not an IT issue, so it was obviously a governance issue. Without...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: We are not identifying names.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: There should be some way that an individual would have to go to a second person.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: That is reassuring. Mr. O'Connor is assuring the taxpayers, through this meeting, that there will be new governance structures, with new checks and balances.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: Even in a very small business, a system of checks and balances is needed. There cannot be the one person. That would make it subject to human error.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: Moving on to the good news, that being, the 70% debt-to-GNI* ratio. In simple terms for those watching and listening, will Mr. O’Connor quantify what this means for taxpayers in terms of prospective reduced interest and potential investment?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: What is the general accepted ratio? Is 65% the ideal?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: We should be seeing declining interest rates.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: It really is a good news story.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: I will move on to housing. The NTMA invests in housing through the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund. Does the NTMA have a policy input? There are not radically good outcomes in housing at the moment. Will Mr. O’Connor comment? Is the NTMA investing in a good strategic ways, is that done at the agency's discretion or could it improve on that? How does the NTMA break between...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: Is ISIF getting optimum results or could it be better?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: Is the big constraint capacity or infrastructure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: The big ones.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: Hopefully, they are in the control of the Government.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: May I ask about the NTMA’s investment in wave energy? There was a great belief that it would be the new gold for Ireland. It was going to feed the grid and be like Norwegian oil, manna from heaven or whatever. Is it too expensive to invest in or are we going ahead in a satisfactory way?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: Why not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: No, I meant wave.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: However, the NTMA does invest in offshore wind.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: The NTMA does not think it is a great thing to invest in. Regarding NewERA, RTÉ is listed in that ambit in the NTMA’s briefing to us. How does the NTMA respond to the fact that RTÉ has not implemented its reforms, or so we are told?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Joe O'Reilly: My final comment relates to Deputy Doherty's question. I agree that under no condition should we be investing in the murder of people on a mass scale. Obviously, the NTMA has stopped that. Does it have a general policy in that sphere? Just as it will have new governance structures in relation to the risk arising in the €5 million fraud, does it have a structure or a philosophical...

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