Another few Question to ask The Minister:
1. Technical Guidance Document B 2006, whilst only a "guidance" document forms the basis of complaince with Fire Safety in the design and constructon of buildings in Ireland. Why do some Local Authorities insist that a Report demonstrating compliance with Part B of the Buildig Regulations be written in the exact same numerical order of TGD-B, even when TGD-B is not the applicable "guidance", i.e. for Shopping Centres, Shops, Offices, Schools, Creches, Apartments, Hospitals, etc for which the BS 5588 Suite of Codes apply (as clearly stated in TGD-B)?
1.1
TGD-B 2006 refers to:
Health Technical Memorandum 81 for new hospitals / extensions to hospitals.
BS 5588-5 1991 for access and facilities for the fire service.
Building Bulliton 7 for schools.
BS 5588 Parts 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12
As noted by the Terrance Flannagan, Fine Gael, Local Authorities in Ireland are REFUSING to accept applications based on BS 9999: 2008, which replaces all the BS 5588 Codes (with the exception of BS 5588-1) since April 2009. I have spoken in depth with BSi and they have confirmed that the "old" BS 5588 codes are, at present withdrawn. The feedback I am getting from Local Authorities is that 1. they are not in favour of the new legislation, 2. they are not willing to accommodate BS 9999 unless and until the minister makes a move on it, and 3. they are stating that as TGD-B 2006 refers to the BS 5588 codes, they are, as far as Ireland is concerned still valid. On this last point, I note the following:
HTM 81 has been replaced since January 2007 by HTM 05-02 (not a revised or amended HTM 81 - new code with new name). This standard is the latest standard to be used for all works to hospitals. If I were to lodged an application today based on HTM 81, these same local authorities would not accept it, as they know HTM 05-02 is the latest, that repalces HTM 81.
BS 5588-5 1991 has been replaced since December 2004 by BS 5588-5 2004. This standard is the latest standard to be used for all aspects of access and facilities for the fire service. If I were to lodged an application today based on the 1991 version, these same local authorities would not accept it, as they know the 2004 version is the latest, that repalces the 1991 version.
Building Bulliton 7 was replaced in 2005 by the DFES, Designing and managing against the risk of fire in schools. This has since been reaplaced by Building Bulliton 100 in 2007(not a revised or amended BB 7 - new code with new name). This standard is the latest standard to be used for works to schools. If I were to lodged an application today based on BB7, these same local authorities would not accept it, as they know BB100 is the latest, that repalces BB7.
On the same basis of HTM 81, BS 5588-5 and BB7, noted above, where the BS 5588 Suite of Codes have been replaced, it is surely best and prudent pratice by all loca authorities to adopt the newest and latest code(s) of practice for fire safety in buildings in Ireland. Why am I and others like me being told by Local Authorities that my application will be reject or refused if based upon the newest and latest code for fire safety.
2.Why are there inconsistencies in the 37 local Athorities in the way that they assess, interpret and imply the Building Regulations. For example, a single storey Out Patients Department (not connected to a hospital) with no bed accommodation is required by some local authorities as a hospital, whilst others, as a "Other Non Residential"?
3. Why are there inconsistancies in the 37 Local Authorities in the method of which they process, validate and assess fire safety certificate applications. For example, about a half dozen or more local authoritis insist that an application is not "valid" until all thier "concerns / issues" have been addressed, i.e.
3.1
the 2-month "timer" does not begin until the fire officer is satisfied that all his "concerns/issues" have been addressed - then the 2-month period begins to enable the local authority to assess the building, if constructed in accordance with the plans, specifications, etc would comply with Part B. But after all that, the fire officer has already done this assessment and examination, so the applicant still has to wait 2 additional months on top of the period that was the "assessment"?
3.2
The same local authorities noted above, will just before the 2-month period has elapsed, send out a generic letter, stating that the application does not comply wit Article 13 of the Building Control Regualitons, but not state what the issues are, just simple put; does not comply with B1, B2, B3, B4 and B5? in these same letters, they note that the application has not been examined or assessed as of yet and will not be until Article 13 is met.The period of assessment or examination of an application begins on the date of reciept of the application (valid or not), for which the local authority are obliged to stamp all docuemnts of the date of receipt of the application. therefore, its from this date, that the 2-months begin.
Mark Mc Daid
Posted on 10 May 2009 8:39 pm
Another few Question to ask The Minister:
1. Technical Guidance Document B 2006, whilst only a "guidance" document forms the basis of complaince with Fire Safety in the design and constructon of buildings in Ireland. Why do some Local Authorities insist that a Report demonstrating compliance with Part B of the Buildig Regulations be written in the exact same numerical order of TGD-B, even when TGD-B is not the applicable "guidance", i.e. for Shopping Centres, Shops, Offices, Schools, Creches, Apartments, Hospitals, etc for which the BS 5588 Suite of Codes apply (as clearly stated in TGD-B)?
1.1
TGD-B 2006 refers to:
Health Technical Memorandum 81 for new hospitals / extensions to hospitals.
BS 5588-5 1991 for access and facilities for the fire service.
Building Bulliton 7 for schools.
BS 5588 Parts 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 12
As noted by the Terrance Flannagan, Fine Gael, Local Authorities in Ireland are REFUSING to accept applications based on BS 9999: 2008, which replaces all the BS 5588 Codes (with the exception of BS 5588-1) since April 2009. I have spoken in depth with BSi and they have confirmed that the "old" BS 5588 codes are, at present withdrawn. The feedback I am getting from Local Authorities is that 1. they are not in favour of the new legislation, 2. they are not willing to accommodate BS 9999 unless and until the minister makes a move on it, and 3. they are stating that as TGD-B 2006 refers to the BS 5588 codes, they are, as far as Ireland is concerned still valid. On this last point, I note the following:
HTM 81 has been replaced since January 2007 by HTM 05-02 (not a revised or amended HTM 81 - new code with new name). This standard is the latest standard to be used for all works to hospitals. If I were to lodged an application today based on HTM 81, these same local authorities would not accept it, as they know HTM 05-02 is the latest, that repalces HTM 81.
BS 5588-5 1991 has been replaced since December 2004 by BS 5588-5 2004. This standard is the latest standard to be used for all aspects of access and facilities for the fire service. If I were to lodged an application today based on the 1991 version, these same local authorities would not accept it, as they know the 2004 version is the latest, that repalces the 1991 version.
Building Bulliton 7 was replaced in 2005 by the DFES, Designing and managing against the risk of fire in schools. This has since been reaplaced by Building Bulliton 100 in 2007(not a revised or amended BB 7 - new code with new name). This standard is the latest standard to be used for works to schools. If I were to lodged an application today based on BB7, these same local authorities would not accept it, as they know BB100 is the latest, that repalces BB7.
On the same basis of HTM 81, BS 5588-5 and BB7, noted above, where the BS 5588 Suite of Codes have been replaced, it is surely best and prudent pratice by all loca authorities to adopt the newest and latest code(s) of practice for fire safety in buildings in Ireland. Why am I and others like me being told by Local Authorities that my application will be reject or refused if based upon the newest and latest code for fire safety.
2.Why are there inconsistencies in the 37 local Athorities in the way that they assess, interpret and imply the Building Regulations. For example, a single storey Out Patients Department (not connected to a hospital) with no bed accommodation is required by some local authorities as a hospital, whilst others, as a "Other Non Residential"?
3. Why are there inconsistancies in the 37 Local Authorities in the method of which they process, validate and assess fire safety certificate applications. For example, about a half dozen or more local authoritis insist that an application is not "valid" until all thier "concerns / issues" have been addressed, i.e.
3.1
the 2-month "timer" does not begin until the fire officer is satisfied that all his "concerns/issues" have been addressed - then the 2-month period begins to enable the local authority to assess the building, if constructed in accordance with the plans, specifications, etc would comply with Part B. But after all that, the fire officer has already done this assessment and examination, so the applicant still has to wait 2 additional months on top of the period that was the "assessment"?
3.2
The same local authorities noted above, will just before the 2-month period has elapsed, send out a generic letter, stating that the application does not comply wit Article 13 of the Building Control Regualitons, but not state what the issues are, just simple put; does not comply with B1, B2, B3, B4 and B5? in these same letters, they note that the application has not been examined or assessed as of yet and will not be until Article 13 is met.The period of assessment or examination of an application begins on the date of reciept of the application (valid or not), for which the local authority are obliged to stamp all docuemnts of the date of receipt of the application. therefore, its from this date, that the 2-months begin.
Kind Regards
Mark