Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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7. To ask the Minister for Finance to provide details of any assessments made by his Department on the impact on the Irish economy of the possible introduction of certain tariffs by the US Government that will act as a barrier to trade between the United States and the EU; the preparations his Department is making to deal with this issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5148/25]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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12. To ask the Minister for Finance the preparations and scenario planning he is undertaking to deal with the possible implications for the Irish economy of the policies of the new Trump administration in the United States; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5105/25]

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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My question relates to a matter which has been raised on two separate occasions in the House this morning, that is, the impact of potential tariffs being considered by the US on Ireland and the EU's trade with the US and any assessments the Department may have undertaken at this stage on that impact. The Minister addressed the matter earlier but I have a couple of related questions in the follow-up discussion.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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To facilitate a back-and-forth discussion on the issue, I will quickly emphasise what I said in reply to Deputy Connolly earlier. Of course, due to Ireland being an open trading economy, we can be strongly affected by changes that happen in global trade. We are currently considering these potential scenarios and they will be outlined in the stability programme update in April.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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One of the implications of all of this that is probably less well understood is the fact that Ireland is the ninth-largest foreign direct investor in the US economy and that Irish firms are responsible for a substantial number of good jobs in the US. Of course, President Trump is nothing if not unpredictable. We were expecting some form of white smoke from the White House this week as to what any potential tariffs may look like. Obviously, Ireland is especially exposed. On that basis, obviously, much of the responsibility in dealing with tariffs would be an all-of-government responsibility. The Minister for enterprise, Deputy Peter Burke, will have a lead role, as will the Tánaiste and Minister for trade, Deputy Harris. From the Minister, Deputy Donohoe's, own point of view, however, does he accept - and this is a long-standing issue about which we have been told time and again - that we need to broaden our tax base to try, insofar as we can, insulate our own public finances from the threats that will potentially arise?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Of course we need to do that. We have made efforts to do that in recent years and need to continue to do so. That is why changes with regard to carbon taxation continue to be essential. It is why changes that we will make in the time ahead to our PRSI system to ensure that our Social Insurance Fund is sustainably funded in the years ahead are really vital. As regards other things we need to do, that is why I have made the case over many years for running budget surpluses.

Imagine where we would be today if we were considering the economic risks we face and we were borrowing lots of money. The risks we are all about to discuss would be multiplied even further. Thankfully we are not in that position but as I said earlier, we also need to look at the investments we can make that deal with not only the needs of our society but also make us more economically competitive and sustainable. That work is currently being overseen, in particular by the Minister, Deputy Chambers as we look at changes we can make to our national development plan.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Donald Trump is on a wrecking mission, that is obvious, although I would caution against allowing his administration to bully us. The reason they have to make America great again is the American economy has declined massively. It used to have 40% GDP, which then went down to 20% by 2014 and it is now down to 15%. The American empire is in decline and Donald Trump personifies that decline. He is trying to reassert global hegemony by bullying people and we should not be bullied. Most of the multinationals here are here because they make a lot of money and they are not going to run away and leave those profits behind.

Having said that, the key thing is we have to diversify our economy. We are too vulnerable, not just to Americans but to a small number of flipping oligarchs - I do not care what country they are from - including a tiny number of the Elon Musks of this world and their equivalents in multinationals. That is the problem. We need to diversify our economy and we need to tax these people more. The Minister says expand the tax base by carbon taxes; I say wealth taxes, financial transaction taxes and taxes on wealth and capital so that these people do not control our fate.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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There is an obvious contradiction in what the Deputy is saying.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There is not.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Of course there is.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is a contradiction of what the Minister says.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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It is great to hear the Deputy make the case for the resilience of foreign direct investment, which is a new departure for him that I welcome but, on the one hand, what he is saying-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have been making that argument for years.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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-----is this employment has a value, and there are lots of these employers in Ireland, and then he is making the case that we should tax them even more and apply wealth taxes to them.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Yes.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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How is that going to help with the challenges we have regarding the safety of our public finances and keeping jobs in Ireland if we are going to tax them more and more? Of course we need to diversify our economy. Of course we need to ensure we have more sources of growth in our jobs market but it should be noted that we have never had more people at work in Ireland and the public finances are in surplus, which is due to the fact that we have a variety of different employers in our country, all of whom are contributing to the creation of jobs and our tax revenues.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Is it Deputy Nash again or myself?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have one supplementary question each left.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
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There is more than a grain of truth in what some colleagues said earlier but I would not put it in the way they have. There is an imbalance in the Irish economic and enterprise model and we are all aware of that, notwithstanding that we have to recognise the incredible work being done by Enterprise Ireland. I remind Deputy Tóibín to look at the Enterprise Ireland job statistics from last year. They are quite extraordinary and they compare very favourably with IDA Ireland's but there is a larger job of work to be done in that regard. I have no doubt that looking at the focus on the indigenous economy that we need to keep a close eye on research and development tax credits, for example, and how we can better operate those to encourage the development of indigenous enterprise, to grow sustainable Irish jobs and to ensure high potential Irish companies go global from here.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have always argued that multinational capital is not quite as mobile as the Minister thinks. They make big investments and do not just run off and leave them overnight. The Government parties have argued that they have to get down on their knees and offer them zero-rate taxes. The rate is 12.5% in theory but in reality it is less than 1% for Apple, as we know. In reality, it is an effective rate of approximately 5% across the board for multinationals but the truth is they are making a lot of profits here, far more than anywhere else. They need access to the European market, by and large, they want to be in an English-speaking country and they need a skilled workforce. That is something the Government should be thinking about because we are falling down in that area. Our third level institutions are falling down the international league tables. We are putting fees in the way of people getting MAs and doctorates and so on. That is the kind of investment we need to make ourselves more resilient against the behaviour of the Elon Musks and the Donald Trumps of this world.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Nash that we need to continue our efforts to diversify our economy and to support employers of all different shapes and sizes. I thank him for recognising the work of Enterprise Ireland in this regard. It does exceptional work. I believe the strength of our food sector and the growing strength of our energy sector within our economy are examples of how we can strengthen the diversity of employment and the diversity of where we can generate economic growth in the future. That remains the key mission of the Government to create the money and resources we need to invest back into the better society and to deal with all the issues the House is well aware of.

Deputy Boyd Barrett knows I have great respect for him as an individual. While I disagree with many of his views, I have always admired their consistency. I have to honestly say to him that the points he is making here today at best sound naive, if not quite dangerous, given the risks we are confronting here today.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Trump is dangerous but the Government can go on talking to him.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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For the Deputy to suggest, given the difficulties we clearly face, on which I answered questions earlier regarding the implementation of a current global tax deal, that jobs and our competitiveness could be secured by going beyond that and taxing more by bringing in new forms of tax, shows no understanding of what it takes to create a job and keep it in Ireland. The path the Deputy is advocating for is one that would lead to a weaker and more vulnerable economy. It is a course of action that I am certainly not going to follow.