Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for being here this morning. At the outset, I want to welcome the fact that Ireland joined Spain this morning in recognising the state of Palestine. It is nice to have a bit of good news amidst all of the doom and gloom.

To get back to the issue at hand, I want to read from an article published recently in The Echo which states that pupils at Fermoy Educate Together National School are packed into classrooms and lessons are being held in corridors. Under the headline "Children at Cork school taught in hallways as principal pleads for more space" we read that:

A Cork primary school is struggling with a lack of space, leaving vulnerable pupils being taught in corridors and students in cramped classrooms. Fermoy Educate Together National School opened in 2018 in the Community Youth Centre, then moved to their current location, the bottom floor of the old Gaelscoil building the following year. Principal Toni Maguire explained: “Our school has become a place of love, nurture, and acceptance — 62% of our school community has an identified learning need and we strive to provide a school environment which supports all learners. However, we are currently facing a massive crisis, a crisis that the Department of Education has ignored despite many hours of work and proposals from our community.” The school currently comprises four classrooms, a tiny staffroom, and office, she said, and pictures seen by The Echo show students packed into classrooms or being taught in hallways. According to the Department of Education buildings manual, a classroom should be around 80 m2, 'but 5th and 6th class are currently in a room which measures 26 m2,' she said, adding, 'to put it bluntly, the premises are not big enough to fit the children we have. The department agreed to open our school, stating that we could have 104 children on roll; now that we have grown they have thrown out any proposals we have put forward to move. We are a Department of Education school, wedged into the bottom floor of a Department of Education building while there are two floors above which are currently occupied by the ETB - the department has refused to comment on the arrangement that is in place which prevents us from moving into the top floors'. Ms Maguire said, 'My heart breaks for our children who deserve so much better than this,' adding that their additional needs learners are currently being educated in the front hallway of the school. 'Their confidence and self-worth is slowly diminishing as they are on display each day while getting additional support. In addition, our school has been sanctioned an autism class — there is a need for these places in the community and we are the only multi-denominational school within a 40 km radius which would have autism class spaces. However, we cannot open this essential service,' she said.

I have received numerous representations on this matter. I will provide a quote from a grandparent:

My grandson is currently attending Fermoy Educate Together National School in County Cork. The current building housing the school is not fit for purpose. It falls far short of the minimum standards expected in this day and age. Our children are being educated in the corridors and the staff room. They are on show in front of all school visitors and are constantly interrupted during lessons. This is just not acceptable. The Department of Education has put our school in the basement floor of a shared-space building which one must admit was never suitable to cater for 104 children in four mainstream classes, as set out in the divestment agreement. This situation is its responsibility and it is its duty to fix the problem urgently. In addition, the school has been given the go-ahead to open an autism class but due to the complete lack of space, it is unable to go ahead and offer this much-needed class for our family, extended family and the wider community in Fermoy.

I think I did well to get all of that out in four minutes. It shows the chronic lack of engagement and common sense. The school is in an ETB building, cramped on the bottom floor. There is space upstairs. We do not know what the rooms consist of but surely there could be some dialogue to sort this problem out quickly.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I am taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for Education. The Minister asked me to thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it provides the Department with an opportunity to clarify the position regarding the development of Fermoy Educate Together National School and, more specifically, the school's request for further accommodation. The Deputy may be aware that Fermoy Educate Together National School is an ordinary mixed school in the town of Fermoy, County Cork. The school had an enrolment in September 2022 of 52 pupils and in September 2023 of 85 pupils. The school is located in the Fermoy school planning area. There are currently 19 primary schools and three post-primary schools in this school planning area.

Fermoy was one of the areas surveyed in 2012 and 2013 under the patronage divestment process where there was sufficient parental demand to support changes in school patronage. The areas surveyed were areas in which demographics were not growing and, therefore, it was unlikely that a new multi-denominational school would be established, for demographic reasons. The policy on patronage divestment is to use existing educational infrastructure to facilitate the provision of diversity in areas where there is no demographic imperative to establish new schools. The reason is, of necessity, the focus of the schools capital programme is the provision of additional school places in primary and post-primary levels to ensure that every pupil can access a school place. As part of the process of identifying a suitable accommodation solution which would facilitate the establishment of the school, the Department liaised with Cork Education and Training Board. In order to facilitate the establishment of the new school, the ETB agreed to the colocation of the Educate Together school at the former technical school site in Fermoy, together with some of the ETB's further education and training services.

Prior to the establishment of the new school in 2018 under the patronage divestment process, the Department of Education and Educate Together, as school patron, agreed that, given the accommodation available at the property and the need for the ETB to accommodate some further education and training services at the property, the school would be established as a four-classroom school and would maintain this configuration in the accommodation in the former technical school unless an existing school building was freed up for use in the area. As part of this engagement, the Department of Education outlined to the school patron the importance of enrolments being managed within available accommodation in a sustainable way and that this be communicated to the school's board of management so that parents could be fully informed, in order to manage expectations.

The National Council for Special Education, NCSE, has a statutory function to plan and co-ordinate the provision of educational support services to children with special educational needs in consultation with the relevant education partners in the Health Service Executive. This includes the establishment of special classes and special school placements in various geographical areas where there is an identified need. When the NCSE sanctions a special class in a primary or post-primary school, school authorities can apply to the Department of Education for capital funding to reconfigure existing spaces within the school building to accommodate the class or to construct additional accommodation under the Department of Education's additional school accommodation scheme, or both. The Department of Education works closely with the NCSE on forward planning for increased special education provision in the form of additional special classes and special school places. This close management with the NCSE involves strategic planning to ensure existing accommodation capacity is utilised and maximised in the context of providing new special classes. It also facilitates the identification of required accommodation solutions where additional capacity is required.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are way over time.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Officials in the Department of Education have been engaging with the school patron, Educate Together, in respect of the current and future needs of the school.

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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I know the Minister of State is only taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister for Education. In the written response he has provided - I am blessed with power reading - it states, "Fermoy was one area surveyed in 2012 and 2013 under the patronage divestment process where there was sufficient parental demand to support changes in school patronage." The response further states, "... there is no demographic imperative to establish new schools". We all have the constituency dashboards. We know exactly how many kids in each area have autism, the age demographics, how they travel to school and what religion they are. The information is there so I cannot understand why there is no demographic imperative to establish a new school. Later in the Minister of State's written response, it states:

As the Deputy will appreciate, the provision of school places, including for children with special educational needs, is a priority for the Department of Education and the NCSE and the Department will continue to work to ensure that there are sufficient special classes available to meet the needs of pupils in the Fermoy school planning area and across County Cork.

How is the Minister going to make sure there are sufficient places when the principal of the school, every single parent and some grandparents who have contacted me from the school are saying the demand is there? They are in a building that is already occupied by the ETB yet the Department states it will facilitate everything. The school has gone from roughly 87 to 104, I think, in demand, not including the autism class, because they cannot get it. The demographic imperative is that the demand is there. I appeal to the Department of Education to get the finger out and go back and access our constituency dashboards. The information is there from the census that the demand is there. Parents and grandparents are telling the Department that the demand is there, as is the principal. The building is already there yet the Department states it will do everything it can to support it. I had a response from the Minister's office which basically said they were told to only have X amount of pupils but if the demand is there, it is the duty of the Department to provide that service. Why does it not do it?

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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As already outlined, there are 19 primary schools in the Fermoy planning area. I again thank the Deputy for raising this matter. The Department has ongoing communication with the school's patron regarding the accommodation needs of the school.

The Department of Education continues to liaise with the school and NCSE regarding the provision of accommodation for pupils with special educational needs.

As the Deputy will appreciate, the provision of school places, including for children with special educational needs, is a priority for the Department of Education and the NCSE. The Department will continue to work to ensure that there are sufficient special classes available to meet the needs of pupils in the Fermoy planning area and across County Cork. The main focus of the Department of Education's resources over the past decade and for the coming period is the provision of critical additional capacity to cater for increasing demographics. The Department is required to manage the overall school building programme so that we target and prioritise areas under the greatest pressure for additional school places. This reflects a fundamental objective of ensuring the availability of school places for every child.

The Department of Education has invested over €544.7 million in projects under construction in the Cork area alone. More than 104 projects have been completed in Cork between 2020 and 2023. There are currently 25 projects under construction. The Department is proactive and is delivering. The figures are there, and the investment is happening. This is about careful management for the school. The project involves four classrooms. The Department has taken on board what has been said by the school and is liaising with it.