Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

66. To ask the Minister for Finance the short- to medium-term plans of the Government to ensure reductions in premiums for insurance products, particularly public liability insurance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22690/24]

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

82. To ask the Minister for Finance the Government's priorities in respect of insurance competition work and reform of the insurance market for the remainder of 2024; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22689/24]

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish to ask the Minister of State about the Government's short- and medium-term plans to ensure there are reductions in premiums for insurance products, particularly public liability insurance. This question follows on from the question that was previously on the floor. We are talking about reductions in settlement costs and the reforms that have happened in respect of duty of care, etc. However, the operating costs of insurance companies are still going through the roof. An enormous amount of businesses are under severe pressure.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I propose to take Questions Nos. 66 and 82 together.

I thank the Deputy for his questions. As has been outlined and is quite clear, insurance reform remains a key priority for this Government and is being delivered via the action plan for insurance reform. As the Deputy is aware, neither the Minister for Finance nor the Central Bank of Ireland can direct the pricing or provision of insurance products. This position is reinforced by the EU Single Market framework for insurance, the Solvency II directive.

Nevertheless, this Government is aware that certain groups are currently facing difficulty in terms of the affordability and availability of public liability insurance and has therefore continued to prioritise the delivery of the action plan for insurance reform. Significant progress has been achieved on these reforms, with the bulk of actions now complete. As Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan outlined, over 95% are complete.

Last year, one of the key asks of both the insurance industry and reform campaigners was put in place, that is, the rebalancing of the duty of care. These amendments to the Occupiers' Liability Act 1995 will deliver major benefits, in particular to public liability cover for businesses, sporting groups and community and voluntary organisations. The policy intent of the legislation was to reduce the number of high-volume, low-cost claims for slips, trips and falls, and frivolous claims proceeding to litigation. In time, cost savings from reduced claims should also help to lower premiums for businesses, particularly those engaged in public-facing and heavy footfall areas where claims associated with slips, trips and falls prevail.

Since assuming my current role a few weeks ago, I have, as I said, been meeting the main insurers in the Irish market. I have also met a number of representative bodies of insurers, as well as the Law Society of Ireland, a representative group of mortgage brokers and various representative groups in the hospitality sector. I had those meetings to set out the Government's expectation that savings arising from this wide-ranging reform agenda will be reflected via reduced premiums, as well as increased availability of cover. I also held a risk round table earlier this month with key stakeholders in relation to hospitality and tourism to discuss what recent insurance reforms mean for such groups, allowing them to educate and empower their members when dealing with insurers. It is important that Government now promotes the reforms to ensure that their full impact can be felt across the board.

I assure the Deputy that seeking to secure a more sustainable and competitive market through deepening and widening the supply of insurance in Ireland remains a key policy priority for this Government and for me, as the relevant Minister of State. For my part, I am committed to working with my colleagues in the Government to complete outstanding reforms and monitoring their impact, with a view to achieving an improved insurance environment for all policyholders, including those with public liability cover.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We know what the Minister of State cannot do but it is a question of what he can do and what interaction he intends to have with these insurance companies as premiums are still going up. I get the idea that we knew that an issue existed in respect of duty of care. An argument could have been made that it could have been dealt with at an earlier stage. The problem was that a huge number of companies that operated in the public liability sphere, in childcare and other sectors, left the market. What conversation will happen with those insurance companies, particularly if premiums do not go down? They benefit when settlement costs go down.

On interactions intended to get new companies into this sphere, have there been any gains? I am asking specifically about public liability insurance.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for his supplementary contribution. As I have laid out, I have met seven of the nine major insurers at this stage. I have also met the representative bodies of the insurance industry, representatives of the Law Society of Ireland and the brokers, as well as representative groups in the hospitality industry, at a round table and in one-on-one meetings. I have another such meeting tomorrow.

The Deputy asked about tangible gains for increased competition. As I mentioned, just last week OUTsurance, a South African insurance company that also has a major presence in Australia, entered the Irish market. It is employing 300 people in Cherrywood in the constituency adjacent to mine. It has initially launched offerings in the motor and home insurance field with a desire, as stated by its CEO in the national press at the weekend and at the launch itself, to move into other areas. It has stated clearly that it wants to compete on price, which will mean lowering premiums and the average cost of premiums around the market. That is something with which we are keen to work. We work through the IDA but also work with the existing insurers to encourage them to move out their risk appetite, and most of them have done so.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We want far more companies to come into the market. We need the likes of OUTsurance, or whoever else, to engage specifically on public liability insurance. We know the issues that exist and the other added costs at the moment. It is an issue that affects community events, event tourism, sporting and community organisations. We all know the ridiculous premiums that have been charged for community centres. We are talking about sustainability across the board.

I will come back to my previous question. If premiums continue to rise while whatever benefits are pocketed by the insurance companies, it is not good enough.

I accept what the Minister cannot do but it is about what he can do and what he intends to do to ensure we see something-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not sure that the clock was-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think you have gained considerable advantage from not having the clock.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I doubt that.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My question is specifically on public liability. I want to draw the attention of the Minister of State to something which he might raise with the Minister for Education. It is specifically with regard to schools. I am aware of a particular school which typically pays €6,000 or €7,000 public liability insurance per annum. It has received three modular classrooms, which account for one quarter of the older school size. It is considerably smaller in terms of square footage but the public liability insurance quote for the three modular classrooms is €28,000. This is in comparison to €6,000 for the main building. I am not sure whether the Minister of State is aware of this issue but perhaps he could deal with the Minister for Education to see whether it is a prevalent issue with regard to public liability insurance specifically for schools.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

One of the problems we consistently have is that the Minister of State continues to be almost a spokesperson for the insurance industry. He did it again. When I asked him whether the insurance industry is taking a hand at the Government he said he was not happy with the rate of decreases. Where are the decreases? This is the problem. Does the Minister of State not know what is happening out there, right here and right now? The most recent data from the national claims information database on public liability, which is what we are speaking about, shows that in 2022 it increased by 8%. Motor insurance fell for a couple of years but it in no way went back to where it was.

The CSO has shown that for every month over the past ten months, insurance has increased. It has increased by 6.1% since 2022. What is the Minister of State speaking about when he says he wants to see the rate of decrease escalate? What is happening out there is that the rates are increasing. This is why I am asking. When Deputy Varadkar said he was giving six months to the insurance industry to cut costs or else, it was in 2019. When he stood in the Dáil in the convention centre-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are way over time.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and said he expected insurance companies to cut the cost, it was 2021.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are way over time.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What difference does it make now when the Minister of State tells them his expectations? Will they just take a hand at him-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----in the same way they took a hand at his partners in government and continued to raise prices?

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a supplementary question, please.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could there be built into the system an alert that would enable the Minister of State to identify sneaking or creeping increases that might not readily come to public attention?

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for their supplementary questions. With regard to the issue raised by Deputy O'Sullivan, I was not aware of the specific issue with regard to modular builds and I will seek a conversation with the Minister, Deputy Foley, to see whether we can get resolution. It is of major concern to all of our constituencies. To respond to Deputy Durkan's point, we do work with the national claims information database and we do see this area.

With regard to the points raised by Deputies Ó Murchú and Doherty, we speak more generally about insurance. We have seen reductions in motor insurance and we will park that. With regard to public liability insurance, we can see areas where we quite simply have not seen reductions. I agree with Deputy Doherty, and I am not looking to disagree with him, that I am not happy with this at all. I made this point quite clearly with the insurance companies. I am no spokesperson for anyone here. I am Minister of State at the Department and I am a representative of the people of Dublin Rathdown. This is why I seek to make sure we do get lower premiums. We will continue to work on this. We look at lessening the hardening impact when we compare the situation here in Ireland with the United Kingdom where we see even larger increases. I will take on board the points made in the contributions of Deputies Doherty and Ó Murchú and we will see where we come to in a couple of months' time.