Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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55. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if he will provide an update on the engagement his Department has had with local authorities to progress the next phase of the deposit-return scheme development and roll-out; the number of local authorities that have registered interest; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21563/24]

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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59. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment to provide an update on the implementation and operation of the deposit-return scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21557/24]

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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60. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if he is aware of ongoing concerns with the roll-out and operation of the deposit-return scheme; the measures he is taking to address these concerns; if he will report on Ireland’s experience thus far when compared with other EU states based on data he received (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21492/24]

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister of State to provide an update on the engagement his Department has had with local authorities to progress the next phase of the deposit-return scheme development and roll-out, and the number of local authorities that have registered interest to date.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 55, 59 and 60 together.

Since the deposit-return scheme, DRS, went live on 1 February, more than 100 million containers have been returned and €18 million has been refunded to consumers in deposits. Daily return rates are growing all the time, regularly exceeding 2 million containers. It reached 3 million on Sunday.

A four-month transition period is in place to allow for the selling-off of existing non-DRS stock and also to focus on supporting consumers and retailers through the critical set-up period. As with any new scheme of this scale and complexity, there have been some teething issues, but I am satisfied that Re-turn is taking the right actions to sort these out.

I am very encouraged by the early engagement rates. While Re-turn is providing periodic data to me, it is important not to draw final conclusions prematurely. In reality, a full 12 months of operation will be needed to make that first meaningful assessment. Such a period is essential for the scheme to mature, ensuring that the metrics we eventually use and report to the EU are both accurate and reliable.

At present, there are almost 2,700 retail return points, about 90% of which are reverse-vending machines, with the rest being manual. The scheme also allows for non-retail operators, such as local authorities, to provide take-back facilities, complementing the collection infrastructure provided by retailers. My Department and Re-turn continue to engage with the sector and already five local authorities have approached me about installing reverse-vending machines at civic amenity sites as part of the next phase of roll-out.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. In that response he referred to five local authorities. I ask him to name them specifically. If engagement with any other local authorities is at an advanced stage, he might indicate how many, even if he cannot name them. I broadly welcome the scheme. The initial Amárach research showed that over 80% of the population were in favour of it and committed to engaging with it. I listened to Ciaran Foley on RTÉ Radio One as I drove up this morning. If that 3 million figure that the Minister of State quoted in his response can be replicated, I would like to think that people will continue to positively engage with the scheme.

I ask the Minister of State to expand on the issue of the excess money. This morning Ciaran Foley alluded to the fact that Re-turn is working with community groups and charities on what might happen to that money. I ask the Minister of State to outline to the progress on that.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. Like every new scheme, there are bound to be teething problems and there were a few along the way in the last few weeks. Like my colleague, I broadly welcome the success rate that has been illustrated. I note with appreciation the amount of time that the Minister of State gave to the Oireachtas joint committee recently where he went through this in great detail.

Reliability is an issue with some of the machines in place. I wish to discuss the possibility of transferable credit, rather than being stuck with credit for a particular retailer. People often choose to return to a particular location for convenience's sake rather than in a retailer that one might use on a regular basis because of that reliability issue.

There are deposit-return-style schemes in other jurisdictions where they have the capacity literally to pour a bag of bottles and cans into a machine and the machine does the work and will most likely kick out ones that are not appropriate. Can we investigate moving to such machines? It would be of extreme convenience for people and make the experience a little less onerous at the weekends in particular. I am sure the Minister of State is aware of the queues in his own constituency as I am in mine.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I have a similar question. I hope for the successful implementation of the scheme. I believe it has been reported that less than 1% of the machines have performance issues. Is there proper oversight regarding internal malfunction of the machines? What training regimes are in place to ensure they are operational as much as possible?

People are now seeing an increasing number of bottles and cans with the Re-turn logo on them. Is the Minister of State satisfied that the transition period will run according to schedule?

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Deputy O'Sullivan asked me to name the local authorities. I know my own council, Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, is engaging with councils in other European countries to figure out how they manage it. I hope it will be one of the first. I do not have a list of the other four local authorities, but when I get it, I will send it to the Deputy.

On the question about excess money, I outlined the financial model to Deputy Whitmore. It is not for profit. The scheme has significant running costs and the largest cost of running it is payments to retailers to handle the bottles. They receive a handling fee for each bottle or can they return and they use that handling fee to pay for the machines. This feeds back into Deputy O'Rourke's question about training for machines, reliability and so on.

The machines are the responsibility of the shops which pay for them and enter a service level agreement with the different suppliers. It is their responsibility to make sure the machines are emptied, the tickets are refilled and that they are working. We are at an 86% reliability rate for machines at the moment. I expect that to go above 90% soon.

Regarding the question about transferable credit and whether a credit note could be used if you go from one shop to another, our transferable method of credit is that you are always entitled to cash. Money is the form of transformable credit, which you can bring from one shop to another. You do not have to accept store credit.

Could you pour a bag of cans into a machine? There are machines that are shaped like washing machines. You could get a bin bag filled with 100 cans, pour them in and the machine quickly sorts them. I expect the county councils will opt for those models of machine because there is a high volume when you are going to your recycling centre.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I again mention following up with the local authorities. The only concern I had listening to Ciaran Foley this morning was when he was asked about the accessibility of some of the machines for people who have issues. They might not be very mobile or able to reach the machine, depending on the type. He said some machines were capable of tending to the needs of people in wheelchairs, for example, but he did not confirm that all machines were accessible. If the local authorities are going to roll this out, I ask that at least those machines would be accessible for all, as opposed to the hotch-potch that might be there at the moment. As I said, all speakers in the House tonight have spoken about the positivity of the scheme and how we want people to engage with it.

To follow up on what Deputy Farrell said, I note the Minister of State's response about cash being a genuine way to reimburse people but perhaps there could be some kind of app on a phone that could be credited. I am not going to say it should be Revolut or whatever, but if there was something like that that could credit someone's personal account, it might be more efficient.

Lastly, on the reliability issue, I know this morning Ciaran Foley said most machines were functioning properly. There could be some kind of app flagging that machines-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----were out of order.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. I am pleased to hear there may be scope for the sort of machines to which I referred to be introduced by local authorities. That would be good. To refer to some of the remarks made by Deputy O'Sullivan regarding accessibility, it is an issue. Will the Minister of State investigate whether, as standard practice, these machines could be a particular height, including where precisely the entry point for the cans and bottles is located as it does matter?

My other question is twofold. The first is on retailers clearing out old stock and either deliberately or unfortunately applying the return cost. I have no evidence but have heard remarks made by constituents that this is occurring. The other relates to restaurateurs. Are they to charge for the DRS for cans they serve at a table? When they clear the table they take the can back. Again, it is a question, not an accusation.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I want to go back to that question of whether the Minister of State is satisfied. It is positive we are seeing increasing numbers of cans and bottles on the shelves with the return logo. Is he satisfied that this transition is going to continue? There were initial problems - more than problems - with databases and barcodes not matching up and lots of teething problems. I echo those points on accessibility. The Minister of State would have heard them loud and clear at the committee as well. It is a piece that needs to be front and centre in terms of reviews and the ongoing implementation.

I also raised the point at the committee of the Irish language in the Gaeltacht areas. It is something that has been raised with me by colleagues. To make a success of the programme and to ensure it is operating to the highest possible capacity, these are matters that need to be kept under constant review.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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Deputy O'Sullivan suggested that the local authorities should have the most accessible machines and that is a very good suggestion. I will go back to the local authorities on that. He asked about credit being applied to people's phones. Local authority civic amenity sites do not handle very small quantities of cash, such as 15 cent. They are really looking at what the solution is for dealing with cash. Credit to a phone may be the answer. There is a difficulty with transaction charges on very small amounts of money, which is why electronic transactions are not usually used. The Deputy also suggested flagging on an app when the machines are out of order and this is a good suggestion. If that data is available, I will ask Re-turn to do that.

Deputy Farrell asked about the height of machines. This is set at 1.2 m. There was extensive consultation with the National Disability Authority before the Re-turn scheme went live. A forum of people representing those with disabilities and those with lived experience with disability is sitting this month to see how the scheme is working in practice and if any changes are needed. Retailers should be selling off their old stock at a discount before the end of the month-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Go raibh maith agat, a Aire. Tá an t-am istigh.

Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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-----because if they try to sell to sell any stock that does not have the Re-turn logo from 1 June, they are liable to fines of up to €5,000.