Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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55. To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade to report on his most recent communications with his European counterparts in relation to imposing sanctions on Israel in light of the International Court of Justice’s recent ruling that there is a plausible case that Israel may be committing genocide in Gaza; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20911/24]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I hope it is clear at this stage that there is no level of atrocity that Israel is not willing to commit against the Palestinian people. It should have been clear long before now for a state that was built on ethnic cleansing on an ongoing basis, on apartheid and on a 17-year-long siege of Gaza, but now, when we look at the massacre in Gaza, it should be clear.

Under the genocide convention, states are required to prevent, not just punish, genocide. What is the Government going to do to prevent what is clearly a genocide?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will answer the question the Deputy has tabled and I will then deal with the specifics of his further questions.

Sanctions are a tool of the EU's Common Foreign and Security Policy and part of a comprehensive approach to the pursuit of EU foreign policy objectives, along with political dialogue and other complementary efforts and instruments. Ireland actively pushed for agreement at EU level on sanctions against violent settlers in the West Bank in addition to further sanctions on Hamas. I welcome the recent adoption of these sanctions and will continue to make the case for targeted sanctions on individuals and entities under the EU global human rights sanctions regime where there is evidence of consistent violations of human rights.

In respect of the case initiated by South Africa against Israel under the genocide convention at the International Court of Justice, I welcome in particular the order for additional provisional measures made by the court on 28 March requiring Israel to ensure the unhindered provision at scale of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance, in recognition of the dire situation unfolding in Gaza. It is for the ICJ itself to decide whether its orders have been respected by the parties in any given case. I expect that the court will consider compliance with its provisional measures orders during the merits phase of this case, and that this consideration will be reflected in its final ruling in due course.

As I have confirmed previously, although the Deputy may not have been present, Ireland is continuing to work on its intervention in respect of this case. I have said that we will intervene. We are going to file an intervention under Article 63 of the genocide convention. It will be focused on broadening the definitions and parameters by which this issue can be considered, and we are working on the humanitarian dimension and the prevention of aid going into Gaza in particular.

South Africa has been given until October to file its substantive case - what is termed the memorial - and it will do that in October. We will file our intervention and we are already working on it. Obviously, we want to see the substantive case from South Africa as well, which is exactly the situation that applied with regard to Ukraine.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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People Before Profit put a motion to the Dáil in November of last year asking the Government to take a case against Israel for genocide under the ICJ and it voted against it. Now, belatedly, because South Africa did what Ireland should have done, the Government is saying there will be some class of intervention. I suppose later is better than not at all, but when we consider the horror that has ensued for the people of Gaza and continues, the Government should be ashamed, frankly, of its failure to support that call in November of last year.

Setting that aside, the convention requires not just punishment after the fact and Article 1 says “prevent”. What the students in Trinity College have done is to seek to prevent by imposing economic damage on a state capable of committing genocide. Are we going to follow the lead of the Trinity students and impose sanctions now that will hurt the state committing genocide? We can do it. We should audit everything in the Houses of the Oireachtas, we should look at every single support given to Israeli companies and, of course, we should expel the Israeli ambassador. We should do things that will impact on a state that is committing genocide.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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When the Deputy spoke earlier about the International Court of Justice, I do not think he was upfront with the Irish people in terms of how it works, and he was deliberately populist and polemic about it. That has been the case on many issues around this question. Ireland wants to be credible in terms of how it legally intervenes in international courts so that when we do it, we do it with purpose, we do it with credibility and we do it in an informed and substantive way that gets results at the court level. When we go through the international courts, of course, those interventions by themselves are not going to resolve the immediate breaches of humanitarian law that are occurring. We are very clear in Ireland. We had also become involved in the ICJ previously in terms of the legality of the occupation and the obligations. We have financially supported those courts, so Ireland has put its money where its mouth is. I respect the courts and I do not treat the courts as political platforms. I believe that when we make a legal intervention, it has to be substantive, it has to be informed and it has to be with a view to getting a result and an outcome, not just for some political grand statement at a particular point in time through a motion or whatever.

The Deputy knows that deep down but he will never say it because it is much more attractive to keep pretending that this side of the House somehow does not share his empathy with the people of Palestine or does not share his horror at what is happening. We do. We have condemned it and we have been strong in international fora in condemning it. I get the sense all of the time that the Deputy is endeavouring to drive a wedge within the House when the overwhelming view of the Irish people is one of condemnation of what is happening in Gaza and of doing everything we can to end it.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have been campaigning for Palestinian rights since I was there in 1987 - I lived there - and my position has been very consistent over a very long time, as has been the movement in this country of solidarity with Palestine. My position is that, in relation to the apartheid state of Israel, we need to do what was done to the apartheid state of South Africa. A state based on apartheid and ethnic cleansing has no place in the civilised world. Surely we now have the evidence that is the case, even if the Minister and the Government did not accept it before. A state capable of genocide is not a normal state. A state built on apartheid, ethnic cleansing and the siege of Gaza is not a normal state. Stop treating it like a normal state. Treat it like the apartheid state of South Africa.

Of course, Governments were eventually forced to recognise that because of the actions of those like the Dunnes Stores workers, who said they were not going to handle goods from a state that was capable of this horror. We should do the same. That is what Mothers Against Genocide are doing, and I handed a letter to the Taoiseach, Deputy Simon Harris, yesterday. Hundreds of doctors are appealing for sanctions now. Stop this horror. Stop treating the state doing this to the Palestinians as if it is some sort of normal state.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Come on. Is the Deputy seriously suggesting we can effectively dismantle the Israeli state?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Dunnes Stores workers played a big role.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Come on. The Deputy's solution fails in any shape or form to deal with the complexity of the situation. It is not as simple as he has put forward at all. It is a long history, as the Deputy correctly pointed out. It is not as simple as recognising one state and de-recognising another and attempting to dismantle it. That would cause untold further violence and upheaval. In our view, Palestinians and Israelis have to live side-by-side in harmony and in peace. That is the only solution into the future.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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And a free Palestine.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is why we condemned 7 October and Hamas. That form of jihadism and rapine was unacceptable too. The Deputy has never done that. He has never condemned it-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Hamas was not even around in 1987. It did not even exist.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----because of his particular view. I believe Israel has no strategic approach to the Middle East and has failed abysmally in developing a strategic approach. I believe earlier generations of leaders had a better approach to the idea of a two-state solution and getting there but it is a far more complex situation than the Deputy is articulating here today, to be fair.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Israel is not interested.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Ireland is doing everything it possibly can. It may not appeal to the sort of popular rhetoric the Deputy will engage in from time to time. By the way, Ireland is recognised in the Arab world for its leadership on that question, and maybe the Deputy could acknowledge that from time to time.