Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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7. To ask the Minister for Health the reason youth service workers employed through the City of Dublin ETB channel of funding in the drugs and alcohol task forces have not received the October 2023 WRC 8% pay rise or had their wages restored to pre-2009 cuts levels; and what detailed measures the Government is putting in place that pay rises are specifically accounted for in channels of funding. [19270/24]

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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I ask why youth service workers employed through the City of Dublin Education and Training Board channel of funding in the drugs and alcohol task forces have not received the October 2023 WRC 8% pay rise or had their wages restored to pre-2009 cuts levels. What detailed measures is the Government putting in place so that pay rises are specifically accounted for in channels of funding?

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Crowe and the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, for their kind comments. I thank Deputy Collins for tabling this question.

Following many months of extensive negotiations in the WRC an agreement was reached in November 2023 which saw an increase in funding for pay of staff in section 39 organisations, as well as section 10 and section 56 organisations. An overall phased increase of 8% was agreed, with an initial increase of 3% backdated to April 2023, a 2% increase from 1 November 2023 and a further increase that came into effect on 1 March 2024.

It is important to acknowledge the vital role these organisations and their staff play in our health and social care sectors. They continue to have a key role in providing services to people with disabilities, vulnerable children and older people, as well as in other social care settings. The Government has a clear interest in ensuring the stability and sustainability of these services.

The objective of the HSE is to ensure all employees can access their entitlements under the WRC agreement. It has already made significant payments to qualifying organisations and continues to work with each of the organisations to ensure payments are made without delay.

As this process continues, it has come to light that there are other community groups which are funded through different pathways and, although operating similarly, are not technically section 39 organisations, such as local drug and alcohol task force groups, and which have not been encompassed within the existing process. The Department is now aware of the issue that has arisen and is liaising with other relevant Departments to explore how it can be resolved satisfactorily and in a timely manner.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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That is interesting. I raised this issue on Leaders' Questions again a couple of weeks ago. The way the funding seems to operate with section 10, section 39 and section 56 organisations and all the private charitable status groups makes it difficult to see where an 80% increase in an area has to be met through existing funding. My understanding is the Department of Health has the funding. The agreement is 8%. It has given it to the HSE. The HSE distributes it to City of Dublin ETB, while the Department of Justice distributes it to prison links officers in the drugs task forces. The prison links and youth sections have not even got their 2009 restoration. People working in vulnerable areas are being left in vulnerable positions from the point of view of being attracted to the private sector and other areas for better wages. That has to be looked at. Will the Minister of State provide more detail on what he is doing, given the awareness the Department has now?

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Officials from the Departments of Health and Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, the HSE and Tusla were invited to attend a WRC process on 16 October 2023 following similar engagements with trade unions representing section 39 and section 56 bodies in recent months. Following productive engagements with the WRC, strike action was averted. This is a recognition of the importance and regard the Government and its agencies have for the sector. The commitment of all parties to this matter has been evident and is indicative of a collective recognition of the difficulties facing the sector.

While the Government has engaged in the process and agreement has been reached, it is worth noting section 39 and section 56 organisations are not public bodies and the terms and conditions of employment for staff in these organisations are ultimately between the employer and employee. Although it is not the employer, the Department is aware staff employed across hundreds of funded organisations have been employed using a multiplicity of terms and conditions, including different rates of remuneration, and are dependent on Government funding.

On the people dealing with the drugs task force, I understand that while some may be working for section 39 organisations, they were funded through a different process, rather than through the HSE. That is why they fall outside the qualifying criteria. Efforts are being made to resolve the issue and, hopefully, it will soon be resolved.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Pre-2009 and the crash, all these workers were linked in with public sector pay and got increases as public sector workers got their increases. That is my understanding from talking to people in the canal drugs task force and other task forces.

That link was broken in 2009. I am sure the Minister of State will agree it is a serious issue that these workers have not had their pay restored since 2009. These people are getting up in the morning, going to work, applying their services and then coming home. They have bills to pay, so it is important they get redress quickly. What efforts are being made to ensure funding is provided to ensure these workers have their pay restored and receive the increase under the agreement reached at the Workplace Relations Commission? I have asked the Canal Communities Local Drug and Alcohol Task Force to give me examples of people who have not been paid. I will give the Minister of State that information when I get it.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Most of the funding for section 39 and section 56 organisations comes through the HSE. The funding for some of the programmes that employ people did not necessarily come through the HSE and therefore they fell outside the agreement that was reached under the WRC. It is my understanding there are further discussions on that issue and every effort is being made to resolve it. It affects a small but important group and every effort will be made to find a solution to the problem.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Where does the funding come from to pay these workers, if not the HSE?

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not necessarily from the HSE. It comes from different sources, which is one of the problems.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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I thank the Minister of State.