Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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6. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if she is considering the consolidation of all disability payments together into one single payment system; if so, her plans to consult and co-design this scheme in conjunction with the disability community; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18411/24]

Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister considering the consolidation of all disability payments into one single payment system and, if so, has she plans to consult and co-design the scheme in conjunction with the disability community, and will she make a statement on the matter?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Tully for raising this matter. As she will be aware, one of the main ideas in the Green Paper I published for consultation last year was to consolidate disability allowance, blind pension and invalidity pension into one single payment. I sought people's views on an approach to providing additional support to those most in need by increasing payments for those people with most profound challenges and, in so doing, to also address some inconsistencies between the payments. In line with our obligation under Article 4(3) of the UNCRPD, the Green Paper consultation process involved an extensive series of stakeholder events, public consultation events and bilateral meetings with disabled person's organisations and disability groups. Based on the feedback I received through this process, it is clear there are significant concerns about the proposals as set out and, in particular, as to whether it was appropriate to reform the system of disability payments separate to a wider consideration of other challenges faced by people with disabilities, including transport, education and access to employment.

Although it was also acknowledged that disability takes many forms and that the costs of disability vary along a spectrum, people were also concerned as to how, in practice, a distinction would be drawn between people with profound challenges attracting the higher rate of payment and other people with disabilities. I have listened to these concerns and will not therefore proceed to further develop the proposals to a White Paper or a Government decision stage. As a Government, we need to have a fresh look at how we can support people with disabilities. It is for this reason the Taoiseach has announced the establishment of a special Cabinet committee on disability with a major emphasis on improving supports and services for people with disabilities in all aspects of their lives. Any reform of disability payments will now be considered as part of this broader review of disability matters on a whole-of-government basis and will take account of the feedback received during the Green Paper process. Alongside this new Cabinet committee, a new national disability strategy is being developed. This is being co-ordinated by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth with a whole-of-government approach.

Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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As the Minister has said, one of the proposals was to merge the disability allowance, blind pension and invalidity pension into a single payment called the personal support payment. While the Green Paper has been scrapped, and for good reason, there were proposals within which merited further analysis and I believe this is one. In our consultation with disabled individuals and DPOs, there was a cautious welcome from many for this proposal. The current system does not meet the needs of disabled people. It is cumbersome and stressful. A single payment that is easy for disabled people to access would be welcome. It is currently based completely on the medicalised model of disability, and people born with lifelong disabilities still have to be reassessed every couple of years, which is ridiculous. It is not as if their disabilities are going to magically disappear. It is stressful and it is a waste of people's time. Any proposals for a new singular system would need to be based on a social and rights-based model of disability as incorporated in the UNCRPD and should only be arrived at after real and meaningful consultation has taken place with the disability community. Co-production and co-design of a singular scheme are what would make this successful.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Deputy's initial question. There are too many different payments trying to do the same thing, whether it is disability allowance, invalidity pension, blind pension or partial capacity benefit. Sometimes people are on long-term illness benefit. For children there is domiciliary care allowance. The Green Paper, in fairness, was trying to put a more unified and coherent approach to this so that everybody would receive what would be known as a personal support payment. That is what the proposal in the Green Paper was attempting to do. I accept we did not get it right. It is clear people were not happy with it. I have listened to those genuine concerns and we now have to go back to the drawing board and take a fresh look at this to come up with a system that supports people with disabilities, which is what we all want to do at the end of the day.

Pauline Tully (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Green Paper also proposed higher rates for disability payments, and that, too, needs to be progressed. The cost of disability payment needs to be looked at. The priority is to ensure no person is living in poverty. I also refer to a number of constituents who have come to my office because their payment has been cut or curtailed without any warning. There may be perfectly good reasons for this, like a review or other incidents that have to be looked into, but the biggest problem is these people have been left without money. They cannot contact the community welfare officer. There was a time when you could go to see the community welfare officer on a set day in a local area and discuss your circumstances. The community welfare officer would be able to make a judgment on whether they needed to give you some money to keep you going. It was a brilliant system, but it is not happening now. People inquiring to see the community welfare officer are being told they have to make an application for supplementary welfare. That can take weeks. One man was in hospital for three weeks. His payment was cut while he was in there. He could not apply for supplementary welfare. He had to wait until he came out. He had bills mounting in the meantime. It is frustrating and concerning.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome that we now realise from our meetings that the Green Paper was not going to work. However, the Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities in 1996 recommended there should be a gradual payment to meet additional everyday costs associated with disabilities. This has come up with me recently too. There is no overall payment to cover the cost of disability in Ireland. Additional costs like equipment and disability aids, transport and communication, medical care, personal care, and other costs incurred by a person with a severe disability are estimated at approximately €5,000 more per year than costs faced by an unemployed person without a disability. There are people with a disability and they are on the poverty line. I know the Minister realises that, but we need to make sure people with disabilities get help with these payments. We need to have a payment that is working for them, and at the moment it is not.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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That is what I am trying to do and what the Green Paper was trying to do, but people were not happy with it. I listened to their concerns. There is a lot of information and we did a lot of consultation during the Green Paper when it was published. We will take lessons from those too. There is now a Cabinet committee and I know there will be a huge focus on this. We have to come together and work together. The organisations representing the disability groups also have to come up with their ideas and solutions and we have to try to find a pathway forward. I know, and we all know, there are people with severe disabilities and we know they are never going to work. We need to make sure they are not being asked to fill out forms and such things. There are also those with a much milder disability. It will be up to them, but it might help them if they were able to go into the workplace. I was in the National Learning Network training centre recently in County Monaghan, and they are doing wonderful work to give people confidence. They told me that during Covid there were a lot of people who lost their confidence, and they have been building it back up to try to get them into the workplace. Some of it has been successful. We need to look at individual cases.