Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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5. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality if she has considered the establishment of a knife amnesty to help address the problem of knife crime. [17752/24]

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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The Minister made a move towards addressing knife crime last week. Has she considered introducing an amnesty in this regard?

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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There are many complex and interlinked reasons for the use of knives in the commission of offences. When some young people feel unsafe or under threat there can be a temptation to carry knives. Incidents involving knives tend to increase this trend and there are certainly no quick-fix solutions to tackling this type of behaviour, which is long-standing over many generations. Long-term, evidence-based strategies and local interventions by trusted youth workers are most effective as part of a wider strategic response to the types of crime in which knives are a feature, including antisocial behaviour, street violence, youth offending and domestic violence.

I established the expert forum on antisocial behaviour in 2020. This has examined a broad range of issues with a focus on developing measures which will counteract the negative impact of this behaviour on community morale and quality of life. The forum operates four subgroups to consider specific issues, including one on knife crime, and has made a number of recommendations based on the available evidence to inform criminal justice policy in this area. This work resulted in last week’s approval by the Government of my proposal to amend legislation to increase sentences for a number of knife-related crimes and to strengthen the use of antisocial behaviour orders.

As Minister of State, I remain open to innovative solutions to tackle all types of crime. I understand that the consistent expert advice from An Garda Síochána is that an amnesty, as suggested by the Deputy, is not likely to yield significant benefits. As he will be aware, in many tragic instances, the weapon is an ordinary household kitchen knife or a screwdriver and it could not be expected that this type of device would be handed in during any amnesty, which would greatly limit its effectiveness.

I assure the Deputy that An Garda Síochána continues with a range of proactive measures to tackle this issue, including its ongoing assault reduction strategy, which is targeted at tackling all types of assaults, including the use of knives. This strategy is informed by a pro-arrest, early investigation and proactive, high-visibility approach.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I am interested in what the Minister of State said. I am aware of an instance in the UK where a knife amnesty was initiated. A family member of someone who carries a knife or someone who is aware of a knife in a household avails of an opportunity to drop the knife into a box, be it in a community centre, a police station or somewhere else that is safe. This takes some knives out of circulation and also, in part, just adds to the general conversation about knife crime. There is the practical part, namely, the demonstrable effect of taking knives out of circulation, but it also adds to the conversation. To widen this discussion a little, is there evidence that increasing sentences does anything? I hope it does because I would like it if the stiffer sentences for knife crime being spoken about would, if introduced, actually bring down the number of knife crimes. Is there evidence to suggest that such a strategy works? I would be interested to hear from anybody who has said it does.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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We have had a number of conversations about a knife amnesty. The evidence, from the UK in particular, shows that it can have a short-term and not extensive effect because knives are so readily replaceable. In terms of it being an awareness issue, we would have to be very careful about how to manage it, if it were to happen. We would need to ensure it did not engender fear in young people and actually encourage some of them to carry knives if they think it is a bigger issue than it actually is. That is why we tend to favour An Garda Síochána carrying out the harm reduction piece rather than having a more broad-based conversation around it, because the latter can actually engender higher levels of knife carrying, which in turn can lead to greater use of those knives.

Regarding increasing the sentences, I was struck by the fact that we have one of the highest sentences for simple possession, at five years. I think it is four years in the UK and two years in many other countries. We did not distinguish between those who may very stupidly carry a knife for self-defence purposes, which is a crime, and somebody who carries a knife with a clear intent to use it for an act of violence. That was the main reason for making the distinction.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I am not hung up on the idea of a knife amnesty. It was just something I wanted to tease out. We need a change in culture among young and not so young people to ensure the carrying of a knife is simply not acceptable in our society, is not needed and leads to harm. I am interested in listening to public awareness campaigns. I spoke to the Minister in a committee meeting earlier about a public awareness campaign around the migration pact. We cannot have a public awareness campaign about everything, but if young people using knives for self-protection or as part of some kind of fashion trend whereby a knife makes a person more manly, that presents a growing menace in Irish society. Is there something we need to do in terms of a wider campaign? This is not just about stiffer sentences, but having a wider conversation through the mediums available to the Department of Justice to try to change the culture.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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Twelve months ago, almost to the day, following a parliamentary exchange between the Minister and me, it was revealed that 13,138 knives had been seized by an Garda Síochána between 2016 and 2022. This is a 78% increase over the seven years. On the one hand, it shows the extraordinary proactivity of An Garda Síochána in managing to seize those knives. On the other hand, it shows that there is a rise in the number of individuals carrying knives who come to the attention of An Garda Síochána. Ultimately these knives are confiscated and become part of the statistics. I completely accept Deputy Ó Ríordáin's point about young people feeling that it is perfectly acceptable for them to do so. I take the point about sentencing, but I think there is merit in the parliamentary question Deputy Ó Ríordáin has put forward regarding an amnesty. There is the potential for the amnesty itself to become the public awareness campaign and therefore end up in the classroom and in universities across the country. It becomes a conversation piece on its own.

James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The difficulty with it just being an awareness campaign is that it could terrify more young people and they may end up carrying knives, which is the last thing we want to happen. There has been an increase, albeit not very significant, in knife carrying in the country. There was an amnesty here in 2006, but it was only to hand in knives that were about to become illegal. The evidence from other countries is very mixed and seems to have a very short-term use. I can continue to have the conversation around an amnesty, but it needs to be very careful. We need to be careful that if it was to be done, it would not come to be considered the complete solution. I am not opposed to the idea, but the evidence regarding its usefulness seems to be fairly limited.