Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Hospitals are under enormous pressure. Chronic overcrowding means constant chaos in emergency departments. We are all painfully aware of the year-round crisis, which sees hundreds of patients suffer the indignity of lying on trolleys. More than 600 people were on trolleys in our hospitals yesterday; the number is 528 today.

However, a not so visible but real consequence of overcrowding is the soaring level of hospital appointment cancellations. On the watch of this Government last year, 250,000 hospital appointments were cancelled, which is a record. In each case that represented a phone call to somebody who had waited with worry to be told that the care they needed had been cancelled. Some 800 chemotherapy appointments for children were cancelled.

Cancer touches all of us in some way during our lives. When somebody receives a cancer diagnosis, the world stands still. In that moment, life comes to a shuddering halt as all of the possibilities hit at once and the long hard road to be travelled then opens up in a flash. When a child receives such a diagnosis, these feelings are amplified beyond what most of us could even contemplate. A cancer diagnosis for a child must be utterly devastating for a family. The instinct of any parent in that situation is to go to the ends of the earth to care for their child. A parent wants to know that the system has got their child, that the system will catch them and that the system has their back. Let us just imagine the cancellation of a child's chemotherapy appointment. This is the cancellation of an appointment that a parent knows is a big part of their child's fight.

The Government has to stop this happening. To stop the problem of cancellations, the Government must solve chronic overcrowding created by the its policy. Any of us who have seen the dedication of doctors and nurses caring for cancer patients are literally blown away. They live and breathe for their patients but we need more of them. We do not have enough healthcare staff right across the system. Dr. Peadar Gilligan of University Hospital Limerick said it most clearly: "There are simply not enough of us to deliver the ever-increasing needs of the population, yet we have an ongoing recruitment freeze imposed by the HSE due to lack of funding from Government.” That is it.

This dire situation is reflected in hospitals across the State. Overcrowding is linked directly to the lack of beds in the system. The Government has been told this repeatedly by professional bodies, patient groups and ordinary people themselves. Capacity is a big problem. Tá na hospidéil ró-phlódaithe go dona. De bharr sin bhí 800 coinne ceimiteiripe curtha ar ceal do pháistí anuraidh. Tá fíor-athrú inár seirbhísí sláinte ag teastáil go dona. We need a change of direction. Fine Gael have been in government for 13 years and for far too long. More of the same will not cut it. Our health services is crying out for change. To ensure that no child's chemotherapy appointment is cancelled due to a crisis in the system, the Government has to increase bed capacity. We need 3,000 additional hospital and community beds and well the Taoiseach knows it.

Then, crucially, we need to end the recruitment embargo imposed by the Government to relieve pressure on hospitals and to ensure that sick and sometimes very sick people get the care they need.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I first want to welcome the students from the politics and sociology department of Atlantic Technological University, ATU, Sligo to the Dáil today who are guests of Deputy Martin Kenny. They are very welcome to Leinster House.

I thank Deputy McDonald for raising this important issue of wait times. It is a little disingenuous the way the figures have been presented this afternoon. These are not just my words. Regarding the press release the Deputy's party issued this morning suggesting a large increase in the number of hospital procedures cancelled in 2023 compared to 2022, which is on its website, the HSE specifically said, "Please do not compare one year with the last because it is not comparable." The HSE specifically said that it would not be reflective and should not be compared with 2023. It is important when we put information into the public domain that we are accurate in respect of it. The HSE put in writing to the party that comparing the figures that it gave to the party's health spokesperson for 2022 to 2023 is not an accurate way because of data collection issues. That is there in black and white for people to read.

Nonetheless, there are very important issues on waiting times in our health service. I am pleased that we are beginning to see wait times improve in the Irish health service. They are not improving in England; they are worsening. They are not improving in Scotland, they are not worsening. They are not improving just up the road in Northern Ireland but are worsening. They have improved for the past two years here in this country but we have have a long way to go and I fully accept that.

The Deputy talks quite rightly about the need for more staff but it is important for the Deputy to acknowledge that since the last general election in 2020, we have 28,000 additional staff working in the Irish health service. When the Deputy talks about recruitment freezes, pauses and the like, it ignores the reality that this year the Irish health service has money to hire 2,200 additional staff. To people watching in from home, I want them to know that. It is not true to say that the Irish health service will not hire more nurses this year, more doctors or more speech and language therapists: it will. When disability services are included, that number of 2,200 rises to just over 3,000. There will, therefore, be thousands more people working in the Irish health service, in hospitals, in the community and in disability services this year compared to last year and thousands more last year compared to the year before.

The Deputy has rightly pointed out the issue of bed capacity. Again, I agree that we need more beds in our Irish health service. Dr. Gilligan is entirely correct. That is why, again, since the last general election in 2020, we have opened 1,100 more beds and it is why the Minister for Health has funding for 1,500 additional beds as well.

She is absolutely right to raise the issue of cancer because there is not a family or community in Ireland that has not been touched by cancer. On that, I think we can all agree. It is important to say that while we have more work to do on cancer in this country, again there are encouraging signs when it comes to cancer survival rates. We have seen a very significant improvement in survival rates in Ireland right across all cancers and all ages. We now have 215,000 people living in Ireland following a cancer diagnosis compared to 150,000 in 2017.

We have seen cancer mortality rates decrease by 14% for men and 13% for women. That is a better improvement than the European average of just 10% and 5%, respectively. We have a plan to eradicate cervical cancer. Huge progress has been made and I note the Deputy's support in that regard for the HPV vaccine and the like. We can actually eradicate a cancer in this country by 2040, and the Minister for Health will publish the plan as to how he intends to do that this year.

I accept that wait times in Ireland are too high but I also have to say as a point of fact that wait times are improving and more and more people are now getting seen within the Sláintecare targets, to which all parties in this Dáil, including the Deputy's, have signed up. Bed capacity is growing, staff numbers are growing and the health budget is growing and will continue to do so. To any parent of a sick child and, most particularly, to a parent of a sick child with cancer, I want them to know that. I want them to know that we will continue to invest more in the services to make sure that their children have the best outcomes. I want them to know that they live in a country that has really good outcomes when it comes to cancer care.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I did not raise with the Taoiseach the issue of wait times-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy did.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I raised the issue of cancellations, and 250,000, that is, a quarter of a million hospital cancellations, is a record. We do not have to compare it with anything. It is a record level of cancellations, and it included-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is not a record.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----800 cancellations of children's chemotherapy appointments.

I am astonished by the Taoiseach's approach to this. It appears that he wishes to argue statistical presentational issues. He is not challenging, I am sure, the fact that there were a quarter of a million hospital cancellations. The Taoiseach accepts that, does he? Does he accept also that there were 800 cancellations of chemotherapy appointments for children? I do not care whether he thanks me. His view of me is irrelevant on this issue. I want it sorted out. It is not acceptable that children with cancer diagnoses have their chemotherapy appointments cancelled.

I raised with the Taoiseach specifically the employment embargo, which is real. He calls it, right enough, an employment control update and framework, but the embargo is real and it needs to be removed. If, as he says, he wishes the best outcomes for all patients, including children, he should lift the recruitment embargo. It is not complicated.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Leaders' Questions is not about the Deputy and it is not about me, and on that we can agree. I have nothing but respect for the Deputy, but that is not what this is about. When she decided this morning, in advance of coming in for Leaders' Questions, to issue a press release with statistics - She did. She can roll her eyes but she pushes it out and Sinn Féin Members will all retweet it.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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But that is not the issue. The issue is people's appointments being cancelled.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let the Taoiseach reply.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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This is ludicrous.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please let the Taoiseach reply.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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No, it is not ludicrous. I am just asking that when the Deputy talks to the people at home, she gives them the facts. The HSE specifically asked Sinn Féin not to do what it did today in comparing the data. That is the first point.

The second point is that wait times and cancellations and how long it takes to see a doctor are all interlinked. What I want people at home, most particularly parents of children with cancer, to know is that they live in a country where the number of people working to look after their children is increasing, where the number of beds available for their children's care is increasing and where the budget for the health service to support their children-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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And where there are a quarter of a million cancellations.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----is increasing.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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A quarter of a million.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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These are important facts, and we cannot just seek to exploit every single challenge. More children are being treated and more money is going in. When you talk about a recruitment embargo, you have to point out that 2,200 more staff will be hired this year.

The only thing that vanished-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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So Peadar Gilligan is wrong.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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That is one third the number for previous years.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I would like to know why yesterday, after I raised the issue of Sinn Féin's alternative budget for health, it disappeared and vanished like Shergar from its website.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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No it did not.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It did not.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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More misinformation.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I have a copy of it here. This is Sinn Féin's commitment to the Irish people. Why did Sinn Féin take it down yesterday? Parents need to know-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We are talking about children with cancer.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----and have every right to know that the Deputy's party provided for less money-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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No we did not.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----for their children's healthcare than our party did. Sinn Féin should put the plan back up on its website.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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We provided for €1 billion more, and you know it. That is a terrible answer to people who are having their procedures cancelled.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, can we-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Absolutely.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is shameful of you.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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You are telling lies about Sinn Féin's budget.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You are telling lies. It is ridiculous.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Doherty, you are not the leader of the party.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I understand that-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is Leaders' Questions. You are not the leader.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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-----but we talk about misinformation in the public, and the Taoiseach is doing that now.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, would you-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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We had Helen McEntee doing it last week. It is a new tactic with Fine Gael because it cannot defend its record.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, we are returning to the strategic heckling approach. Please do not. Please stop heckling.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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It is pathetic and it is beneath the Taoiseach.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Government side would stop heckling as well, it would help.

I call Deputy Bacik.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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The Taoiseach's Government is failing neurodiverse children and their families. It needs to do more on autism services. One year ago, we in Labour put forward a Dáil motion on autism services for children. It included a call for action to end the lengthy delays, the backlog, in accessing assessments of need for children. Responding to our motion then, the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, committed to reimbursing parents for private assessments where the State had failed to provide them after a certain time. That announcement was significant and very welcome.

As we all know, receiving a diagnosis is just a first step. It does not guarantee access to school places or therapies and cannot fix a society which is inaccessible and even discriminatory. Without a diagnosis, however, children and young people with autism are often deprived of access to the supports they need to thrive. Lack of diagnosis deprives them and their families of clarity and can delay detection of other conditions, such as ADHD. We therefore welcomed that announcement from the Government at the time, a year ago, because the HSE's waiting lists are a huge part of the problem and parents should not have to pay for something the State should be providing. In a cost-of-living crisis, many parents simply cannot pay, with the cost of an assessment often as much as €2,000. We were led to believe then that parents would begin to be reimbursed if the waiting lists had not been resolved by August 2023. Instead, since then, as one parent recently told me, things are not improving. "It's worse they're getting," they said.

I know the Taoiseach is aware of this because in his recent Ard-Fheis speech he said that the backlog in assessments of need must be unblocked. He committed to establishing and chairing a Cabinet committee to break down these silos and address this. Last week, that committee on children, education and disability was announced. Under the Taoiseach's predecessor, however, there was already a Cabinet committee on children and education, which the new Taoiseach sat on as a Minister. Does adding the word "disability" to the title constitute the height of the new ambition to focus on disability? If so, it is disappointing that the "new energy" we have heard so much about may have petered out already. If this was really a serious commitment, would the Taoiseach not establish a stand-alone Cabinet committee on disability? It is more than 25 years since Mervyn Taylor of the Labour Party first initiated legislation to end discrimination on disability grounds but the State continues to fail so many. It is hard to see how appending the issue of disability rights onto the existing committee will make a change. We need real ambition and movement.

I know that in June 2023, the Taoiseach met the amazing young advocate, Cara Darmody, only 13, who has worked so hard to raise awareness about autism and to ensure that children get timely access to assessments. We worked with Cara and her family on the motion last year but there has been no follow-up since. Will the Taoiseach meet Cara as soon as possible? I spoke to her father yesterday about this. When will we see that commitment from last year made good? When will the Taoiseach's Government start repaying families who have had no option but to seek assessments elsewhere? When will the Government vindicate the rights of all those waiting on assessments of need? Will the Taoiseach meet Cara?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Bacik for raising this important issue. I will absolutely meet again with Cara Darmody.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It was a pleasure to meet with her last June. She would blow you away when you meet her, as the Deputy knows. She had a number of items on which she wanted to make progress. She has got some of them over the line and I know she wants us to do a lot more. I am very happy to meet her and her father Mark and I will be in touch with them to arrange that. She has written to me very recently as well. I am very happy to accept Deputy Bacik's invitation today to meet with her, so I will arrange that.

The Cabinet committee on children, education and disability will meet for the first time on Monday. The Deputy is right that we have decided to have children, education and disability together. The rationale behind that is that the Department of Education and the Department of children have responsibility for co-ordinating our national disability strategy and the like, and I just felt it was appropriate to use that structure to have them there. This will involve me chairing a Cabinet committee on disability issues once a month. That is a commitment I wanted to give to this issue because there is a lot of work to be done. The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, has done really good work in this area. Deputy Bacik has acknowledged some of the good engagement she has had. The Minister of State will very shortly publish an autism strategy, which has been worked on for quite a significant period. I will follow up directly with the Minister of State on the issue regarding assessments and the payment of assessments because she gave that commitment in good faith - I have absolutely no doubt about that - on foot of the Labour Party motion, and I want to help her to be able to deliver on that in any way I can. I will come back to Deputy Bacik directly on that.

A couple of other things are worth mentioning. One thing I will want to look at quickly is the issue of workforce planning.

Whether one is paying for a private assessment or waiting for a public assessment, it is true to say that we are not training nearly enough people for therapy posts. I will task the Minister, Deputy O'Donovan, with working with universities to see how we can ramp up the number of training places in Irish universities for speech and language and occupational therapy and physiotherapy. We have started on an all-island basis. A number of places in therapies have been ring-fenced for students from here in Northern Ireland since September. I hope we can do more from next September in that space.

The second issue I would like us to look at and which I intend to look at is that of in-school therapies. This had worked well. There were a number of pilots, for want of a better phrase, that had worked in schools in which therapies were provided in schools. One was in my constituency and I was familiar with it. I would like to see if there are learnings from that as to how it could be embedded in the school and health service coming more closely together to meet the needs of the child. I am happy, as the body of work of the Cabinet committee gets under way, to have a debate in this House on what the scope of that work might look like and how people across the House can feed into it. I fully accept we have a lot to do in this space. I will meet Cara in the next couple of weeks and get her views as well.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach for committing to meet Cara Darmody and her family. They will be really appreciative of that. As he said, that meeting will take place in the next few weeks. They have new information. They have been incredibly impactful - I must say that and pay tribute to them - in raising awareness about the lack of services, lack of autism services and services for neurodiverse children. I also thank the Taoiseach for clarifying that the new committee will meet on Monday and for committing to following up with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, on the issue of the reimbursement of payment for private assessments of need. I am also glad to hear that the Minister of State will soon launch the national autism strategy. It is long overdue. Will the Taoiseach give us a timeline on that? The reality, of which I think we are all aware in this House, is that parents of children with neurodiversity or autism have to fight hard for every service. It is not just about assessments of need, although that is the focus of what we are talking about today. The Taoiseach also referred to issues like in-school therapies, broader services and school places. Many children have to travel far out of their communities to access these services. Even when they have the diagnosis and even when the service is provided, it is not provided anywhere near where they live. It means they cannot have the same quality of life as their siblings. I appeal to the Taoiseach to give us a clear commitment as to what meaningful change the new Cabinet committee will make for those children and their families. I thank him again for agreeing to meet Cara Darmody.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I look forward to meeting Cara and working with Deputies who are like-minded on this issue across this House. It is an area in which we can make progress together but one in which we really need to do that. I will check with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, but my memory tells me the publication of that document is imminent. The strategy is much awaited and a lot of work has gone into it. I will confirm that in writing to the Deputy. I should also have said that in reconstituting this Government, I appointed my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, to have responsibility at the Cabinet table for special needs education. I thought that was another important lever we could pull in amplifying the voices of people with a disability, particularly from an education point of view. Another area we can look at quite quickly is career guidance for children in special schools. I was kind of astonished to realise that this does not happen at the moment. I was, until very recently, the Minister for third level education. We now have courses for students with intellectual disabilities in third level but if you are in a special needs school, you do not have access to career guidance supports. The Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, and I just published a new strategy on career guidance. That is one of the actions in it on which I would like to see early movement. I take the Deputy's point about the geographic inequity and the need to map out properly the delivery of both our school and health services. I will keep in touch.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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Last week, the Taoiseach made a full commitment to supporting Ukraine's sovereignty. In the same week, he made an argument for Ireland to cede sovereignty to the European Union in the EU migration pact. Sovereignty is no small thing. It means that the people of this country can self-determine the laws that govern us, they can influence the elected representatives and hold them to account. When decisions are made in Brussels or Berlin, Irish people find it very hard to influence those decisions and we certainly cannot hold the decision-makers to account. The banking crash was a perfect example of this. The EU forced billions of euro of bailouts on Irish citizens. It did enormous damage to this country and we are still recovering, with a lost generation of investment in health, housing and infrastructure. The Government also signed up to greenhouse gas emission targets but it will fall well short of those legally binding targets by 2030. This will cost the State hundreds of millions of euro in fines. In answer to an Aontú parliamentary question, we learned that the EU is fining Ireland tens of millions of euro at the moment. The EU fined Ireland €2.5 billion for wastewater issues, €1.5 million on environmental impact assessments, €17 million for the Derrybrien wind farm, €2 million for failure in respect of the money laundering directive, €2.5 million for failures regarding the audiovisual media services directive and €500,000 in relation to the European electronic communications code. The State is currently in court fighting fines regarding what is happening in the bogs. The Government is now looking to sign up to further EU commitments and it is already failing on the commitments it signed up to and getting fined.

The immigration policy of this country so far has been a disaster. The Government has failed consistently to differentiate between those who need help and those who do not. Aontú parliamentary questions have shown that, in the last five years, 85% of people who received deportation orders never had them actioned. I have that parliamentary question from the Taoiseach when he was Minister for Justice, so he should not shake his head. We found out that 5,000 people came through Dublin Airport with no travel documents last year, and we also found out that the Government is not asking 75% of asylum seekers how they came into the country. Now, the Government is seeking to outsource this immigration policy to the EU. At the heart of that migration pact is the idea of a mandatory solidarity pool. States must accept immigrants or financially contribute. Numbers and amounts of money are based on population and GDP. Our GDP, as we know, is already artificially elevated. We find it impossible to accommodate the migrants who come to this country. Given that Ireland is already being fined all over the place in terms of our commitments, which we are not meeting, how much will it cost the State to sign up to the EU migration pact? What are the minimum and maximum amounts?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I can shake my head if I wish to because for some of what I heard, it was quite a challenge to just keep my head movement to that. On this idea that we are ceding sovereignty and that people in Brussels are making decisions - does Deputy Tóibín not want to be a member of the European Parliament? Is he not running for election because he wants to be there making-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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We do but we do not want to cede any more sovereignty.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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What are you going to do there?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, let the Taoiseach answer.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Let us not go down the kind of Brexit Britain road here of Brussels bad, Ireland good. The reality is we are members of the European Union. After I finish taking questions, I will head to Brussels where I will participate in a decision-making process with other European Heads of Government. Members of the European Parliament, which the Deputy aspires to be, will vote democratically on behalf of the people of Europe. Ireland appoints a Commissioner to the European Commission. It is not about outsourcing. This country took a proud decision - I am not sure what the Deputy's position on it was - to join the European Union.

When you join up to rules and laws, you have to abide by them. There are court systems in place in that regard and sanctions if you do not. That of course puts member states, including Ireland, under pressure from time to time but they are rules and laws we signed up to. Nobody imposed them. Nobody said we must do this. We signed up, opted in, and chose to do that. That is part of how a rule-based system works.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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We know that.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I cannot hear the Deputy.

When it comes to migration, it is fanciful in the extreme to think that this small little island with, thankfully, an open border - which we all worked very hard to protect during the Brexit process - could just go it alone regarding global and EU migration and that we would continue with the system in which we cannot effectively return anybody, in many ways, in terms of secondary movements and where, as the Deputy pointed out, the deportation system can be challenging at times. To sign up to a significant overhaul of the rules would result in a firmer migration system - a fair but firmer one - and Ireland would disproportionately benefit because so many people who come to Ireland seeking refuge come here from what are called secondary movements. There is no doubt following my engagements in Europe in the past week - and I doubt there will be any after my engagements this week - but that Ireland stands to be one of the big beneficiaries of the EU migration pact. We will have plenty of time in this House to debate and discuss that.

I wish to be clear about our migration system.

As I think the Deputy will know, it is not possible to put costings on these things. The dynamic effects are that Ireland will benefit in some ways and not in others-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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That is a weakness

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----but overall will be the better for it. We will have an opportunity to tease through in painstaking detail the EU migration pact at the justice committee and on the floor of Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann. Far from ceding sovereignty, the people's representatives, including the Deputy, me and everyone else in this House, will vote "Tá" or "Níl" on whether we want to go it alone or work with our European partners in accepting the fact that migration is a massive crisis of our time. It is a humanitarian crisis and an economic and social challenge and we need to work together.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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The people with the Taoiseach's political background probably said in 1921 that it was fanciful for a small country like ours to go it alone and be sovereign. This is the key issue here. The point is-----

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is a horrendous slur.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I asked the Taoiseach how much it would cost the State to sign into the EU migration pact and he stated, in front of the Dáil, that he does not know. That is an absolutely disgraceful answer from a Government that has already made a political commitment to sign up to that pact. It is an incredible situation. This is potentially the Taoiseach's first blank check with respect to the cost to the country. Given that we are already paying fines to beat the band for failure to meet commitments the Government cannot hold to, we, the citizens, will have to pay for it in the future. The Government is already incinerating hundreds of millions of euro in waste, including €2.25 billion on the national children's hospital and €300 million on metro north and the shovel has not even been put into the ground. The Government spent €22 million on ventilators that do not work and is spending €50,000 a year on a warehouse to store them at the moment. We have more than 100 electric buses-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Time is up Deputy, please

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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-----that have not worked a day because someone forgot to put in the planning application for them. Now, the Government is saying to the people of Ireland-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you Deputy. The time is up.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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-----that it does not know how much it will cost. That is an absolute disgrace. How much will it cost the citizens to pay for the EU migration pact in the future?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In the minute available to me, it is not possible to deal with the electric buses, the metro, the national children's hospital, waste and a range of other issues that Deputy Tóibín went on an interesting journey around.

However, it is absolutely beneath him to slur my political tradition and political party in this House. Let us look at the party the Deputy spent most of his time in and his stance. If it was up to him we would not-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I was in Fianna Fáil, as was the Taoiseach, once upon a time.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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You are a bit of a tourist so.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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You were Sinn Féin.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I was 15.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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If it was up to the Deputy, we would not be in the European Union because-----

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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That is not the case. That is not true.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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You voted against it every single time.

A Deputy:

Did you not oppose every referendum?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is Deputy Tóibín's question.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Sorry, Deputy McDonald is muttering something I cannot hear.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we stop the interruptions please?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is a statement of fact that Sinn Féin has opposed every European referendum since we joined the European Union, including the one to join the European Union. That is the truth.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is so utterly dull, that we are hearing this in the Dáil. New Taoiseach, old fogey, young fogey.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Old fogey, young fogey.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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I have a question.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, please, please.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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It suits Fine Gael and Sinn Féin to make this about those two political parties. There are other political parties here. This is one of the few times I get a chance to ask a question and it is an important question.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your seat Deputy and I will ask the Taoiseach to respond.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I was distracted about the personal slurs Deputy McDonald made about my character, rather than engaging on political issues.

In response to Deputy Tóibín, we are proudly seeking to join the EU migration pact. It is good for the country and for Europe. We are looking forward to teasing through and debating the detail in this House, the Seanad and at the justice committee and we will continue to do so.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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Small businesses are going through the most horrendous time, especially in the past few months. Cafés, restaurants, pubs and family hotels are closing at an alarming rate. Hundreds have already closed this year. Businesses the length and breadth of the island are pleading for help in an effective way but to date, the call has gone unheeded by the Government. Last week, the Government stated it intends to help small businesses by providing grants, advice and mentoring. Grants may help, but for these businesses, some of which have been in operation for decades, advice and mentoring is an insult to their intelligence.

Last week, on the front page of the west Cork Southern Star, a national campaign for the VAT rate to be reduced was launched by businesses throughout west Cork. This campaign, called VAT 9 Now, run by Jamie Budd of Budd's restaurant in Ballydehob, Peter Shanahan of the Fish Basket in Long Strand Beach, Gavin Moore of Monk's Lane, Timoleague, Aisling O'Leary and Forbes Kelly of Revel, Clonakilty and Vic Sprake and Deborah Ní Chaoimhe of Camus Farm outside Clonakilty. This campaign is gaining support from hospitality businesses all over the country. The VAT rate returned to 13.5% from 9% for the hospitality and tourism industry in September 2023, although I and others pleaded with the Government at that time and beforehand, stating it would have devastating consequences for important businesses in every town and village. This destructive increase, combined with spiralling energy costs, increases in food costs and the minimum wage, are bringing already tight margins for these businesses to the point of being unviable.

Businesses have now been saying for months that the Government does not realise the effect of the VAT increase that almost doubled, plus all other costs associated with running a business, including energy costs that no one has control of and the minimum wage that no one expects to decrease. However, the Government has control over the VAT rate and the call is to immediately drop it back to 9%. If it does not, more and more of these businesses will go under. One of the business people in the group I mentioned said it is a hugely testing time for the sector, that their margins are at breaking point and that it is disheartening because they love what they do, but they cannot be busy fools. They worked long hours through Easter and having paid everything out, little is left. These businesses pay rent, rates, electricity bills, water bills, wastewater bills, waste bills, wages, suppliers, maintenance, insurance bills and most damaging, the VAT bill. These café, restaurant, pub and family hotel owners are asking how many of these businesses have to close before the Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Green Party Government will wake up and understand the crisis they are in. Surely, those at the top are not so disconnected that they have no idea what is happening on the ground. Are the backbencher TDs and Senators telling the Government anything? I will ask a straight-up question on behalf of the VAT 9 Now action group from west Cork, which has gone national. Will the Taoiseach support the return of the VAT rate to 9% from 13.5% this week, thus giving these businesses a small boost before the summer season? It would be a boost that may see them survive. Anything else coming from the Taoiseach today will be devastating for these businesses.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Collins for raising the important matter of small businesses and especially mentioning a number of them in what we call the hospitality sector, cafés, restaurants, pubs and others. I fully accept they have been struggling to absorb significant costs and have been operating in an environment of high inflation, rising costs and a number of charges that have come at them all at once. When I talk to many of them, it is not that they believe any of the initiatives are bad. They want to do well by their employees as it helps them to retain staff. The key to a good business is to look after the workforce. However, at the same time they are trying to make ends meet. I acknowledge that and I want to work with them and like-minded Deputies in this House to see how we can do that.

Our newly appointed Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Peter Burke, is looking at a range of ways in which we can try to support businesses, small businesses in particular, and, most importantly, how we can provide them with certainty about what the next few years look like. I certainly heard clearly, as have my colleagues, that they want to know whether they will have to pay even more costs, so it is quite important to try to provide them with certainty about what the next few years will look like.

We already have a scheme in place worth €250 million. Deputy Collins will be aware of this increased cost of business scheme and the €250 million currently being given out. Today, 34,000 businesses will have applied, but there are a few more than 140,000 businesses that could benefit from it. I encourage every Member of the House to please get the message out in their constituencies to all businesses that they can apply for this grant. It is easy to apply for, low on bureaucracy. Very little paperwork is involved. Let us get money immediately into the bank accounts of small businesses.

We have also kept in place the VAT cuts for gas and electricity and increased the VAT threshold level, which has helped many small businesses. The Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, is also working on an energy efficiency grant that will significantly help businesses with the cost of energy.

Deputy Collins specifically raised the issue of the VAT rate. It truthful of me to say, it is a factual position, that issues around VAT and tax rates in general are matters that are considered in the budget. They remain issues we will continue to consider and the Government will make decisions on all tax and spending matters in the budget, but we will not wait until the budget to act to help small businesses. To anyone watching these proceedings, especially small business owners, there are more than 100,000 businesses eligible for financial support from the Government. I ask them to please apply and let us get that money into their bank accounts and to know that in the next few weeks we will be working to put more measures in place. Crucially, we will also be working-----

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Rubbish

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----to provide policy certainty as to what the next few years will look like with respect to the cost of doing business in Ireland.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply.

The Taoiseach said he fully accepted the sector is struggling. Unfortunately, VAT is the problem here. The Government does not seem to understand that since the VAT rate went up, restaurants and cafés all over the country are shutting down. Door after door is banging shut. The Taoiseach does not grasp the crisis here. On his election as Taoiseach last week, I listened carefully to him to see if he was going to be different or more of what we have had before. Lowering the VAT rate is where he could have shone but he did not. Other than promises, we got nothing, which means more of the same.

How many cosy cafés, neighbourhood restaurants and pubs will close before the penny drops? How will our towns and villages look with more shuttered premises? The Government has to lower the VAT rate now and not kick the can down the road to October. That will not do. The new group will protest about the VAT rate. I promise the Taoiseach that this is not just a west Cork protest but a national one. I will ask again. Will the Taoiseach lower the VAT rate from 13.5% to 9%? Will he announce that today? If not, I promise the Taoiseach that the Government will face wipeout in the upcoming elections. People are angry. They are shutting their doors.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank Deputy Collins.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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They are fighting to create employment but losing jobs and income. Employees are losing their jobs and they are furious wherever I go in the country.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The people will decide the outcome of the elections, not Deputy Collins's utterances in the Dáil. I would never be so arrogant as to tell the people what they are going to do in an election; maybe Deputy Collins should not either. It is not helpful to come at this with a suggestion that there is one way of helping businesses and if we do not do it this way, we do not care at all. That is oversimplistic. To be frank, if anybody understands the importance of balancing the books, doing a budget and living within a budget, it is businesses. The Government has to work like that as well. The Government produces-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The Government is trying to stifle them.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Government produces a budget in this House each year. The budget is then voted upon by Members of this House and the country lives within its budget. We have done that, and it has provided economic certainty to businesses. It has provided a situation where we have full employment. It has provided a situation-----

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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Plenty of them have closed.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----where we have been able to set surpluses aside and provide €250 million of assistance to small businesses in Ireland today. It is worth saying in this House today that 140,000 businesses are eligible and only 34,000 or thereabouts have applied so far. We need everybody who is eligible-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It should be repackaged.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----to get this money in their bank account. The Government is seeking to give people financial assistance and we are saying we will not stop there. We are going to do more around energy efficiency. We have increased the VAT threshold. We have left the gas and electricity VAT cuts in place for the time being. We are also looking at how we can provide certainty. The big thing I hear from small businesses is that they want to know what is next in terms of costs and whether there are more coming at them. I assure them that the Government will only pursue policies in the weeks and months ahead that will support small businesses and their viability.