Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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66. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills for an update on the proposal to introduce a DEIS plus scheme for the most acutely disadvantaged schools in the country. [16367/24]

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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The Minister will know that I have raised this next matter probably more than any other issue in my capacity as the Labour Party's spokesperson on education. I refer to the need for a new designation of what is called DEIS plus for the most acutely disadvantaged schools. It is an initiative that was started in Dublin 17, in schools in Tallaght and Ballymun. The estimate is that about 100 schools around the country would benefit from extra therapeutic support. I ask the Minister if she has considered this matter and if she will move on it.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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The DEIS programme is a key policy initiative of the Department to address specifically concentrated areas of educational disadvantage at school level. The Department now spends over €180 million annually providing additional supports to just under 1,200 schools in the DEIS programme. This includes an additional €32 million allocated following the announcement to extend the programme from September 2022. This means that approximately 240,000 students, or one in four of all our students, are now availing of DEIS supports.

Within the DEIS programme, 306 primary schools with the highest levels of educational disadvantage are included in DEIS urban band 1. In my time as Minister, I have provided three improvements to the staffing allocation for these schools. DEIS urban band 1 schools receive access to an enhanced staffing allocation of one teacher for every 17 pupils for junior schools, one teacher for every 19 pupils for combined schools and one teacher for every 21 pupils for senior schools. This means that children in DEIS urban band 1 schools have more contact time with their teachers. DEIS urban band 1 schools also have access to the support of home school community liaison co-ordinators, access to the school completion programme and receive additional funding by way of a DEIS grant.

The National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, provides priority access to its services for schools in this DEIS band. School leaders and teachers in these schools also receive priority access to professional learning through Oide to support them to meet the needs of their pupils. Evidence shows that the DEIS programme has been successful in improving the outcomes for students in schools with higher concentrations of educational disadvantage. For example, the number of children completing the leaving certificate in DEIS schools has closed significantly on the number in non-DEIS schools since the DEIS programme began.

However, I am aware of the proposal referred to by the Deputy and I have met with a selection of the principals of the schools involved. I recognise that more work is required to ensure that all children, regardless of background, have the opportunity to achieve their potential in education. That is why the Department has undertaken a programme of work to explore the allocation of resources to schools to address educational disadvantage.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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When I raised this matter before, the Minister said there would be no OECD review of the DEIS programme until the second quarter of this year. This is why I have been relatively patient in trying to find out if the Minister will listen to what the principals have said. The Minister has said she has met them. The need in these schools is absolutely profound. Making one child out of every four a DEIS pupil does not really deal with the profound levels of acute disadvantage that are in our most deprived schools. The principals have said the impact of Covid has compounded things profoundly.

The rates of self-harm and suicidal ideation that resulted from the Covid pandemic were highly problematic. We are talking about intergenerational trauma. Principals are advocating for specialised trauma support. The schools in question represent the life chance for these children. It is the best chance they have. DEIS works; it is a success. The Minister has acknowledged that, and I know she believes it. The INTO has estimated that about 100 schools would greatly benefit from further additional support.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I do not disagree with the Deputy. It is important for the Department to have an independent assessment of the work of DEIS and then we will have an opportunity to see where we can go forward. The OECD Strength through Diversity: Education for Inclusive Societies project is currently engaged in a review. It has been here, and was here last summer. It is reviewing the entire DEIS area. It met the schools involved in DEIS, schools that are not involved and DEIS schools that believe they require more from the programme. It is an enormous body of work. The OECD review is being complemented by a programme of work within my Department to develop a future policy for resource allocation to address education disadvantage. This work also involves consultation with a range of relevant stakeholders. Officials involved with this work recently held consultations with more than 200 principals of primary and post-primary schools. This included a number of principals from those most acutely disadvantaged schools and provided rich data for the team to inform its work.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I am not in any way suggesting that the Minister does not appreciate the severity of the issues at hand. I have shared stories of my time teaching. The stories of people now on the front line are harrowing. We are losing children because of interventions which could take place and which, as has been acknowledged, would make the difference. It is very upsetting and very emotional to speak to principals who say if an intervention had taken place with a child when she was seven, she would not be having the issues she has now at the age of ten. I appeal to the Minister. I know she is having a review. I know that she has to stand over every cent spent by the Department and that there has to be some kind of scientific analysis as to why these allocations are made. There will never be a better investment in these 100 schools because that actually improves the life chances of these children. The school provides the most routine; it is the safest space they ever enter. That is why I will keep making this call until it is delivered upon.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the DEIS initiative for schools in areas with the highest deprivation, which is really important. However, I see this even in County Carlow in schools that I am working with now. For example, some of the schools have hot meals but they have no funding for snacks or breakfast. The supports are vital. There is the added struggle for the same students to access the public health system. They are often forced to wait years for initial assessments with therapists. While the work is great and DEIS status for schools is excellent, some schools really need more funding in that area. I know of schools in my area that I believe really need extra funding.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I really believe there is unanimity in the Chamber on the value and importance of DEIS and on the difference that DEIS makes to the life of the student. The DEIS programme has provided a range of supports, such as reduced class sizes, additional resources, school completion and home-school-community liaison officers. Very importantly there are two things. There are schools in DEIS whose principals firmly believe that they would benefit from even more DEIS resources, even though they might have the highest band of DEIS. There are also schools not in DEIS at all. We need to be very clear that there are children and young people at risk of education disadvantage and they do not attend DEIS schools; they are in other mainstream schools. We are trying to do a root-and-branch review. We have the OECD review and the work that is ongoing within my Department to ensure that to the maximum of our ability we will be able to raise all boats for all children, namely those who require additional supports within DEIS and those who are not in DEIS but who also require support. We hope to have that shortly.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are almost out of time. Deputy Clarke will not have the full time for this question.