Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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62. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the reason no counsellor is available to a school in north Leitrim under the Counselling in Primary Schools pilot (details supplied); and if she will make a statement on the matter. [16346/24]

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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Why, after nearly one year into a two-year pilot programme entitled Counselling in Primary Schools, no counsellor is available to schools in the north Leitrim area, even though Leitrim is one of the counties in the pilot area? I have sent the Minister details of one of the schools. Obviously, I do not want the name of the school to be mentioned because of confidentiality but it is one of a number of schools in north Leitrim that have not been able to access this highly valuable and badly-needed scheme.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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In June 2023 - the Deputy is correct - I was very pleased to launch a €5 million pilot of counselling and well-being supports in primary schools in selected counties. This further supports the range of mental health and well-being supports already provided by my Department and the excellent work already happening in schools in respect of well-being. All of this supplements the mental health supports that are offered by the HSE throughout the country.

The pilot has two strands. Strand 1 sees direct counselling supports being provided to primary schools for the first time. The Department has set up county panels of pre-approved private counsellors providing one-to-one counselling in primary schools in counties Cavan, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Mayo, Monaghan and Tipperary. In total, 733 blocks of counselling have been allocated to schools across the pilot counties, which provides an allocation to 733 children in these counties. To date, 33 counsellors have been recruited across the seven pilot counties. Strand 2 involves the introduction of education well-being teams to provide enhanced in-school supports for a cluster of primary schools in Cork, Carlow, Dublin 7 and Dublin 16.

Some 15 education well-being practitioners have been recruited to the four cluster areas. They have undergone an intensive training programme provided by NEPS and have commenced visiting and supporting schools in recent weeks. The supports being offered are to pupils, parents, and school staff to support well-being and resilience at a whole-school level.

Separately, to supplement support for the post-primary sector, I recently announced a tender to procure services to further support well-being and mental health in post-primary schools. The tender will invite suitable providers to work with the Department to develop and deliver additional supports to complement existing systems and structures in post-primary schools for well-being and mental health.

As the Deputy knows, the provision of counselling to children is a serious and a sensitive matter. As there is no single recognised counselling qualification and no national regulatory body for counselling in Ireland, at this point in time, we are accepting applications from counsellors accredited with six accrediting bodies for counsellors in Ireland, who met the requisite criteria for this pilot project. This is to ensure that the counsellors have the appropriate training and skills to engage ethically, professionally and effectively with this vulnerable age group.

Counsellors are available to work in all seven counties of the pilot and my Department continue to accept applications from counsellors on an ongoing basis. We are hoping that more counsellors will be added to the panel in the coming weeks. Two counsellors were available to work in Leitrim. I am delighted-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am sorry, Minister. We are way over.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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As the Minister said, this scheme came into being last May 2023. That is almost a year ago, and Leitrim is one of the seven counties in this scheme, along with Cavan, Laois, Longford, Tipperary, Mayo and Monaghan. This is a very valuable scheme. It provides counselling outside of the NEPS scheme. You do not need a full assessment from teachers etc. in order to get access to the scheme. It is a much more agile scheme. Teachers have to make a judgment through their interactions with the students and it really is very beneficial. However, it is no good if it is not available to those students. There is nobody on that panel as of now that will travel to north Leitrim to provide the service as announced, and I know four schools that are looking for that service. There is a lot of advertising of this service on social media and all of that, yet when schools go looking for it, it is not there. Parents are contacting schools asking what is happening, and I hope I can get a positive response from the Minister this evening.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I can confirm in fact that 733 blocks of counselling have been allocated, benefiting 733 children. What I can say is that is has been difficult to recruit in certain areas. As I said, two counsellors were available to work in Leitrim, and I am pleased to say that on 11 April, an additional counsellor was added to the panel who is available to work in schools in Leitrim. The Department is actively recruiting counsellors to work on this pilot, and I encourage all counsellors who are accredited by the accrediting bodies to make themselves available for this important work. This is a first in the area of primary schools. There is, as the Deputy has said, an absolute need for it. It is working, and it is working very successfully in areas where there are two types of pilots. As I have said, one is where there is one-to-one counselling. It has been easier in some areas to access the counsellors than in others but I am pleased to say we now have the third counsellor in place for Leitrim, and the 15 well-being practitioners that are working under the guidance of NEPS.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
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The school about which I gave the Minister details, which we are not mentioning here, contacted the Department in February, and again in March it submitted what I think is called the appendix 1 form. It has not heard back from the Department. It would be very useful if the Minister's Department could contact the school to let it know the situation. As the Minister knows, if a principal thinks a child needs this service, it is quite a difficult conversation to have with a parent, and then if they apply for the service there is nothing there. The Minister has told me there is another counsellor available - I think she said from 11 April - to work in Leitrim. I do know that when a counsellor was contacted, they said they could not travel the distance as it was approximately 60 km. I hope that will not be the case in this circumstance, and that whoever this counsellor is will be able to travel to the various schools in north Leitrim that need this service. It is not the schools that need it; it is the children. As the Minister said, it is a good service but it needs to be accessible for students in north Leitrim.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. I reiterate that 733 blocks of counselling have been provided to 733 children. It is new and innovative, and it will take time for it to take root. There have been challenges - I would be the first to say it - with regard to recruiting counsellors. The Deputy has specifically referenced her own area there. I am pleased, as I said, that from mid-April we have been fortunate to allocate a third counsellor, and we will continue to recruit in that space. It is interesting that there are two pilots because it will give us greater learning going forward as to whether a combination of the two, or one or the other is the most appropriate with which to move forward.

With specific regard to those who are training under the NEPS psychologists, they can come from a variety of backgrounds, whether it is education, social care or psychotherapy. Some within that field are currently being trained under the NEPS psychologists and they are actually out working in the clusters as well. There will be greater progress going forward but again, I would encourage people working in this field and who have this expertise to consider becoming involved as part of the primary school programme.