Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the annual cost of providing Army security at Portlaoise prison; the number of prisoners in the prison that this security relates to; whether the need for an Army presence there is under review; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13033/24]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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My question relates to the cost of providing Army security at Portlaoise prison. This relates to the fact that when the Army was originally deployed to the prison, there was a large number of prisoners. I am interested in finding out the number of prisoners who are specifically secured by the Army presence and whether the need for that presence is under review. As the Tánaiste knows, things have changed dramatically at the prison.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his question. I appreciate his ongoing commitment to issues at Portlaoise prison and the work he continues to do. The Deputy will be aware that the Department of Justice and An Garda Síochána have primary responsibility for the internal security of the State. Among the roles assigned to the Defence Forces in the White Paper on Defence is the provision of aid to the civil power, ATCP, which, in practice, means to assist An Garda Síochána when requested to do so. At the direction of the Government, the Defence Forces continues to provide 24-7 security at Portlaoise prison. The total cost associated with Defence Forces personnel performing ATCP roles at Portlaoise prison for 2023 was approximately €1.9 million. The total cost includes the costs of escorting prisoners to medical appointments and court hearings outside the prison.

The publication of the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces included a recommendation "That an immediate focus be given to standing down a number of current Defence Forces’ ATCP taskings, which no longer seem justified in the current security situation". Following this, I instructed my Department to formally engage with the Department of Justice to seek a new Government decision on the withdrawal of the Defence Forces from Portlaoise prison. In addition, I agreed with the advice of my officials and the military authorities that a phased reduction of Defence Forces personnel from Portlaoise prison should commence in line with the current threat levels from the remaining prisoner cohort falling under the aforementioned Government decisions. I can confirm that, following consultation with the Department of Justice, a reduced level of deployment is now in place commensurate with the assessed threat levels.

As the Minister for Justice has primary responsibility for assessing the security status of prisons and any review falling from same, I am not in a position to comment further in relation to such matters. It would also not be appropriate for me to comment on the number and classification of prisoners within the prison due to the nature of security and operational matters.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I met the Tánaiste in December 2020, at which time there were 29 prisoners in the E block in Portlaoise prison. There are now fewer than ten. By mid-summer, the figure could be half that again. Does the Tánaiste not agree that is a radically different situation from the situation that caused the Army to be deployed to the prison in the first place? I welcome what he had to say about reviews but is it not time we dealt with this issue and stopped wasting €1.9 million on a small number of prisoners who could easily be held securely under the normal prison regime?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I take the Deputy's point. That is why I have acted on this. A deployment of 50 personnel was traditionally in situ at any given time, with a resource commitment of 100 personnel in total accounting for those resting or on stand-by. The current resource commitment is 16 personnel. Any resources released by the step-down in commitment will be redeployed into regenerational capacities and capabilities across the Defence Forces. There are now expected to be substantial savings arising from the reduced deployment of personnel. We have reduced personnel significantly at Portlaoise prison and the matter is under constant review given, as the Deputy has outlined, that the security situation has changed.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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As I said, when I met the Tánaiste there were 29 prisoners on the E block. I predicted at that time that if no new prisoners came in, the numbers would drop to approximately ten by the end of 2023. That happened. To my knowledge, there are no prisoners in the E wing on remand, so there is nobody awaiting trial. There is nobody, to my knowledge, in the E wing who was out in bail. It would therefore appear that the threat level is reduced. Some prisoners there are near the end of their sentences, with one prisoner due out next month. We are, therefore, talking about a small number of people. There are all sorts of other prisoners in the prisons who are high risk. It seems amazing that this small number of prisoners needs the Army to secure them when none of the other prisoners in the whole prison system, who are in for very significant crimes, needs this. We have to recognise there is a changed dynamic here. We need to build on that in a positive way to try to get everybody to move forward and to realise there is a political way and space for all political opinions, as long as they are followed peacefully in this country.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I said to the Deputy, the traditional resource commitment of 100 personnel is now down to 16. I have instructed that there be a further phased reduction. There has been a substantial reduction in line with the security assessment and in consultation with the Department of Justice, following recommendations from the Commission on the Defence Forces. I am conscious, since I met the Deputy, of the issues and I have spoken with my officials about this issue. We intend that the prison authorities should ultimately be in a position to deal with it and the necessity for the aid to civil power would no longer exist. That would be the fervent hope of all of us in that regard, and that is the direction of travel.