Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The second Topical Issue is in the name of Deputy Durkan, who wishes to return to discuss the ongoing issue of the protection of Castletown House in Celbridge which is a very important issue for north Kildare and Meath.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Indeed it is and I thank the Ceann Comhairle for affording me the opportunity to raise this particularly important issue for north Kildare and for the country. It is important for the protection of the national interests in the arts, the preservation of great houses, for the history of area and for the need to ensure that whatever happens around Castletown House has the full support of the local population. They have supported this heretofore, and continue to support this, despite the fact the response coming from OPW is less than helpful. Much in the tone of the last speaker, we all represent our respective areas throughout the length and breadth of this country.

In this particular case in Castletown, there was a temporary situation in operation for past ten or 15 years whereby ongoing permission was given to go to and from the State's house, property and assets and to provide whatever services necessary to protect the State's interest in the historical house and gardens. The way the situation has developed is that there have been a number of meetings where the issue has been discussed but no solutions have been proposed. There have been no solutions and there has been no progress in tackling the fundamental issue.

The fundamental issue is how to go to and from the State's property at Castletown House and the 137 acres, or whatever it is at this stage. I have repeated it so often, I can barely remember it. The fact of the matter is that this was happening. The people and the OPW were quite happy with it - everybody was happy with it.

There is the aspiration of buying the rest of the property in the future. That has to be dealt with as well but it can be dealt with once secure access to and from the property is guaranteed. That is a first because if there were two private landowners side by side, this matter would have been decided long ago because it would have been decided in the courts and an injunction, an arrangement or agreement would be entered into. There would be no threat to the historical house or the adjoining landowner because ways and means would be found to share the access. There would be no problem at all about that. There needs to be progress in that area, and it needs to be soon and dramatic.

My reason for saying so is that the people who have kept vigil around Castletown House and the access to it since last September have done the State a considerable service, in that they have helped to protect the listed house for all kinds of reasons mentioned several times before for the foreseeable future. That has to happen anyway if access to the house is not allowed by the State and its agents to its own property.

I would like to know what better case would come before the courts. I would like to hear it and to see the evidence. We are told from time to time that there is legal advice but we have not seen the legal advice. We are told the legal advice is that we have no chance and it is compared the situation to Lissadell and so forth. It is not at all analogous to Lissadell. It is a different story altogether.

I ask the Minister to do all he can do to bring about a quick response and to ensure the access that was there already is restored in the first instance and thereafter to negotiate whatever purchase is required.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy and ask whether the Minister of State has a solution for us.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to thank the Deputy for his ongoing interest in Castletown House and estate. In recent months, the Deputy has made continuous representations through parliamentary questions, Topical Issues and Oireachtas committees with regard to Castletown House and estate. He and the other elected representatives of Kildare North are members of the Castletown House and estate stakeholders’ working group. This working group was initiated by the Minister of State, Deputy O’Donovan, in October 2023 to progress the reuniting of the historic demesne and access issues to Castletown House and estate. This group includes representatives of the community and all of the local political representatives in the area.

The issue that has come to dominate the discussions of the working group is related to vehicular access for the staff of Castletown House. It is now the case that the OPW staff have not had vehicular access to their workplace since September 2023. Their union withdrew their members on 25 October 2023 until the OPW can provide a safe working environment or safe access and egress for their members to attend their workplace. A skeleton staff continues to undertake the minimum operations on the site.

The OPW has been asked by the working group to assess a number of different options for staff access. These include: the Castletown farmyard through the public road in the Woodview estate; through a privately owned and maintained road to the Batty Langley gate and onto the historical pedestrian pathway of the Dublin Drive, which is not designed for the weight of vehicles; and the Celbridge gate and Lime Avenue. It is understood from the community that the use of all these routes are unacceptable to different parts of the community, particularly the Woodview estate. However, if no routes are acceptable, then the outcome is that the OPW staff cannot return to conserve and protect Castletown House and estate.

In normal years, Castletown House would have opened last weekend to welcome visitors. This is not possible due to the continuing community protest. The Lime Avenue has always been the vehicular access point to Castletown House and estate since the House was built. The roadway is designed for vehicular traffic.

In the meeting of the working group on 22 February, one of the community organisations submitted a proposal to the OPW that would see staff accessing the site through Lime Avenue at certain times of the day and leave Lime Avenue primarily for pedestrians for the core part of the day, including during school commuting times. This was further discussed at the working group on 11 March and while there was broad welcoming of this proposal, it is my understanding that not all community groups have confirmed that they are willing to move forward with this proposal. I would urge the Deputy to use his leadership within the community to make progress on this proposal.

The first stage of this proposal is for an independent health and safety risk assessment of the impact of limited vehicular traffic on Lime Avenue. The OPW has appointed a health and safety professional from an Office of Government Procurement framework to carry out a specific audit of the use of the vehicular and pedestrian access routes for OPW staff vehicles, people with a disability and external contractors. The health and safety professional must be the person who finalises the report as it must take account of the OPW’s obligations as an employer under the Health, Safety and Welfare at Work Act. The OPW is committed to taking on board the advice from this health and safety professional.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle and the Minister of State can understand the frustration of local public representatives because everything is answered except the question that is fundamental to the issue, that is, how to restore the access that was there before September last. At that time, some of us put forward the idea of seeking an interim injunction to state the case for the State to access its lands freely and at will. We were told that would not be successful and that the legal advice was wrong. The OPW had enough advice itself in September and when the threat of the closure of the previous access arose, it said that it had alternative access. It turned out to be the access that is opposed by the local people, Lime Avenue, and the access that has a huge amount of traffic, as was rightly anticipated. We need this done in order to run the estate as it is intended and hoped.

In the circumstances, I believe it is high time the OPW made its case known. Does the OPW intend at any stage to make a serious effort to go back to the status quo and restore the access that was there previously for itself and its own staff, as well as for the benefit of the local community and the benefit of all interested in Castletown House? It is a stately home, a mansion of huge historical importance, including for the locality, for this House and for the country. I ask the Minister of State to impress upon those in the OPW the urgency of the situation and the fact that time is running out, and time that is running out does not go on forever. I ask that they make a special effort to concentrate in the next couple of weeks, and then come back and tell us what is their intention, other than to suggest that they intend to buy the whole estate at some stage in the future. It is time they got onto their game and set in motion whatever processes are necessary to do one thing or the other. However, they must at all times keep in mind the right of the State to gain access to its own property unimpeded.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I will pick up from where I concluded. The following stage of this proposal envisages that OPW staff and essential contractors access the site via Lime Avenue at predetermined times of the day. The OPW has made written commitments that the volume of traffic would be approximately 20 vehicles per day for OPW staff and essential contractors. People with a disability would also be facilitated with access as required. Arrivals and departures will not occur all at once but will be spread across the windows of access and egress. This small number of vehicles will not impact the current congestion within Celbridge. In fact, the work by the working group and the OPW may help to reduce congestion in the longer term by changing travel patterns. As has been stated repeatedly, there is no intention to use Lime Avenue for general visitor traffic to Castletown House.

It should also be highlighted that the use of Lime Avenue by OPW staff during the predetermined windows will give priority to pedestrians and ensure their safety. The system of pedestrian priority is used extensively across OPW heritage sites and has always operated in Castletown House and estate for access for staff who park at the east of the house and for people with a disability. It is also how Castletown Estate operates with regard to vehicles involved in the maintenance of the grounds, which have always been a feature of Lime Avenue.

The Deputy has been a strong supporter of Castletown House and estate over the decades. Given its importance to the tourism industry in Kildare, I hope he will be able to give his full support to ensuring that this proposal is progressed through these phases. He has been a representative of the constituency since 1981, which is a fantastic achievement and great credit to him, so I hope his leadership can ensure that Castletown House opens this summer.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is what I am trying to do. We will be visiting this site again.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suspect we will.