Dáil debates
Thursday, 29 February 2024
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
International Protection
4:40 pm
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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This is a hugely important issue for my constituents in the Louth-Meath area. As the whole country knows, the D Hotel in Drogheda has 113 bedrooms. Apart from the 16-bed Scholars Townhouse Hotel, it is the only hotel in Drogheda now open to new guests. The decision to take over the D Hotel and put 500 IP applicants in there was the Minister's decision and it was made without consultation. The Minister has to be held accountable for this because people are very angry and dismayed. This is not because IP applicants are coming to Drogheda but because the Minister is taking our only hotel from us. That is the key point.
On 13 February 2023, he said: "All statutory requirements relating to the establishment and management of emergency accommodation, are being met by the service provider, including health and safety, fire, building regulations and other requirements." In reply to a parliamentary question I tabled on 12 December 2023, the Minister said:
The Local Authority have a regulatory role in relation to properties being brought on stream to verify that they meet the required building, planning and fire safety regulations. Once all the documentation is received, the Department continues to engage with the appropriate fire certification authorities to ensure fire certification is up to date and once evidence of sign-off is received from the relevant authorities and provided to the Department, a contract is signed for the use of that property.
No such document was received by the Minister or his Department from the local authority. That is a fact. How do I know that? A letter came into my possession, which I understand the Minister has a copy of, from a firm of solicitors in Dublin, written on behalf of Hallscotch Venture Limited, the owners of the shopping centre, to Fairkeep Limited, the occupants of the D Hotel. It states, among other things:
We would refer you to your letter [the Fairkeep Limited letter] of 20 February, wherein you confirmed that your Client was satisfied that the proposal was compliant with fire safety regulations. We are instructed that our Client has contacted Mr Eamonn Woulfe, Chief Fire Officer, Louth County Council, (to whom we are copying this letter) who confirmed that he wrote to your client and informed it that the proposed change from a hotel to IPAS accommodation requires an application to be made for a new fire safety certificate. Mr Woulfe further confirmed to our Client that as of lunchtime today, no response was received to his letter and no application has been lodged for a revised fire safety certificate.
There it is clear in black and white that the Minister did not conform to his own regulations. He did not insist on full compliance with his regulations and he signed a contract without a fire certificate, which is the cause and the reason for this concern.
The premises is now a huge controversy. People like me, who fully support IPA's applicants coming to town and have no issue with it, know that the anger is not because they are coming in, but because there was no consultation and there has been no fire certification to date, which is the other key point. That does not mean it is not going to follow, but it was not in place when the Minister signed. Therefore, the contract is null and void. The Minister has been asked to renegotiate the contract. Is he going to do that, and if not, why not?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy and the other local TDs for their ongoing engagement on this matter. Ireland is now accommodating more than 100,000 people, between those fleeing the war in Ukraine and international protection applicants. Our accommodation system is under real pressure now. With all the limited accommodation capacity in the International Protection Accommodation Services, IPAS, system being used and given the significantly increased number of arrivals in the context of accommodation shortages, my Department has no option but to use all offers of accommodation made to it to address this accommodation shortfall. This has of course necessitated opening accommodation across the country
In recent weeks, we have seen particular pressure on the availability of family accommodation. This has required us to maximise the number of available beds for families. The alternative is that we will see families and female applicants being left homeless. That is the position I am left in.
My Department contacted the Deputy and other local TDs on 14 February to inform them that we were planning to use this accommodation. Subsequently, the community engagement team issued a briefing to TDs, Senators and councillors. They met Louth County Council officials and the community response forum. I have met the Deputy and other TDs, the county councillors representing Drogheda, urban and rural, and the local chamber of commerce.
With respect to the fire certificate, the Department seeks evidence of compliance with fire safety standards when appraising all offers of accommodation. The production of this evidence is mandatory and the local authority holds the remit for assessing compliance with fire safety and for enforcing the regulations around same. Where there is notification to the Department of possible non-compliance, we immediately engage with the contractor of the property, whose responsibility it is to ensure their premises meets the required standards. They engage directly with the local authority on the issue and the Department requests evidence that the matter has been resolved to the satisfaction of the local authority.
With respect to the D Hotel specifically, following an offer of this property to the Department, the standard appraisal of the offer was undertaken. A part of that was the provision of evidence of compliance with fire safety. That evidence was duly produced. The provider's fire safety compliance expert has confirmed that the building's fire certificate is fully compliant for the use of the hotel bedrooms. I understand that the provider is engaging with the fire officer on the matter, as the Deputy stated.
With respect to the suggestion that the D Hotel would be used for international protection applicants and paying guests, that proposal is still under consideration. No decision has been made. My officials have engaged with the hotel regarding an understanding of the layout and the particular concern around child safety in terms of the use of shared entrances, exits, lifts and stairs and that is ongoing. It is a challenge but the engagement is ongoing.
The Deputy knows and I acknowledge the frustration about the need to use this hotel. I recognise that the people of Drogheda have welcomed many international protection applicants and many Ukrainians over the past two years, and in some cases, long before that as well. I acknowledge that the most of the anger about this is to do with the removal of tourist beds. I understand it. All I can say is that I am left in the invidious position of securing accommodation or seeing people being left homeless. I understand this is something that no one in this House, or indeed anywhere else, wants either.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has not denied that he said on 12 December that the fire certification must be up to date and once evidence of sign-off is received from the local authority and provided to the Department, a contract is signed. Did his Department get a sign-off before he signed the contract? That is what he said he would do in December. In February, it is quite clear that the he did not get such a commitment and he signed off illegally. The Minister can shake his head if he wants; the fact is he did not do it. As I speak, the fire certificate has not been issued. The key point about the anger in Drogheda is because of the Minister's lack of consultation, a crowd from the Irish Freedom Party tried to stir up trouble in our town, as they did in other parts, and continue to do, burning places and God knows what. They had a rally in Drogheda and when they asked if somebody from Drogheda would speak, nobody did because nobody supports them. I do not support them and the people I speak for do not. However, they also do not support the Minister in what he has done. He said he still open to discussion. I believe that there is no contract now. If he needs to go in with a shared facility, he can go ahead and do that.
Well, the Minister may go ahead and do that, but he needs to know that as he speaks today, more than 220 places are on offer to his Department in different parts of Drogheda. I believe they will more than meet the need that the Minister will eventually meet in that hotel. I say to the Minister to take up those other places. Leave the hotel to the people. Leave the hotel to tourism. Leave the hotel to business interests. However, we do absolutely welcome, and always have done, all the people who come into our town.
Finally, more than 200 contracts have been signed since 2020, but none of them has a cooling-off period. Therefore, if the Minister finds that somebody has erred or made a mistake, or in the case that the Minister makes a mistake, there is no cooling-off period. The contracts stand regardless and that is bad ministerial and Government business. We want to be on the Minister’s side and not against him.
4:50 pm
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy speaks of a cooling-off period as if these are easy decisions that our Department is taking in a normal time. Again, we are responding to a humanitarian crisis and imminent homelessness. We have already seen that we are unable to provide accommodation for more than 1,000 male applicants as of today. We are close to being in that situation with families and female applicants as well.
I wish I was in the position where I had cooling-off periods in these situations, but I am not in that position, because I have a legal obligation to provide accommodation. I am failing in it and the Government is failing in it for 1,000 people right now. Deputy O’Dowd can shake his head about that, but that is the sad fact of it.
In the context of the D Hotel, evidence of compliance with fire certification was provided to my Department-----
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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By the local authority. It was by the local authority.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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We do not sign contracts without evidence of compliance with fire certification.
On the final point, the Deputy spoke of 220 spaces that are available in Drogheda. Those are spaces that under Government decisions can only be used by beneficiaries of temporary protection by Ukrainians.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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That is not true Minister. That is not true.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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With respect to the Deputy, that is true.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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No, your Department told me that was not the case.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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They are not available for the use of international protection-----
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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You have been misinformed Minister.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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They are not available for the use of international protection-----
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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They are.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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------applicants.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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At least 60 of them are available. There are 80.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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On the basis that they are within the refurbishment programme, they are only available to beneficiaries of temporary protection.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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That is true.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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That is not true.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, we have to accept what the Minister says. He is the Minister.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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He is not saying the facts. I have to challenge him on that.