Dáil debates
Tuesday, 20 February 2024
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Defective Building Materials
10:30 pm
Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the Minister of State for coming here this evening. In 2020, a husband and wife started the process of assessing their house, which they knew at the time had defective blocks. One year later, a young woman - a wife and a mother to three children - sadly passed away. This has been a very difficult and traumatic time for this family, and in the midst of their grieving they still have to contend with a house that is slowly falling down. In the words of the husband, "This is an awful weight hanging over us." This family is being asked to reapply again, to start again the long process of applying to get on the defective blocks scheme, four years later. There has to be flexibility in this scheme which would account for or lend itself to facilitating people in this situation. There is still a disconnect in the understanding of what people are going through. The psychological burden is too heavy for people to endure. The intergenerational trauma is affecting primary students, secondary students and third level students in houses with defective blocks.
When people hear about this scheme, they are quick to make judgment calls: "Sure look at all the money they are getting. Look at their big houses." The reality is that people are caught up in a bureaucratic nightmare and that trying to navigate through this process is nothing short of torture. The issue of defective blocks will not go away and needs to be dealt with. Communication is poor, trust is at an all-time low, and confidence in the process is slowly ebbing away.
Do not get me wrong. Potentially, we could have a good scheme here, but the feedback I am getting is that it is not working at the moment. There are deficiencies and there is an appeals process embedded in the legislation which is not up and running. We have issues with terraced and semi-detached houses. Imagine asking someone in a semi-detached house to knock the house down, with the other house attached to it not being eligible, and move it a couple of inches away from the other house and build what is effectively a detached house in the space of an adjoining house. There is a feeling that there are stalling tactics. There are major issues with people not being able to access credit. There are affordability issues. There are people who face trauma compounded upon trauma.
I ask the Minister of State for her intervention and to make contact with the Minister for housing to ask him to make a personal intervention in the issues I have raised. Furthermore, for the many people who find themselves in very difficult situations, the scheme needs to be addressed. Yes, there will be a review. We do not know when that review will happen or how the scheme will be reviewed, but it has to be done immediately. We have a scheme here that potentially can work but at the moment is not working.
Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Yes, I will bring this to the attention of the Minister for housing.
10 o’clock
I offer my condolences to the family. That is a difficult situation notwithstanding this matter. I note what the Deputy said about the review and that it needs to be done as soon as possible. I will bring those particular comments back to the Minister for housing. I know this mica scheme has been a big issue for the Deputy a very long time and I acknowledge his concerns in that regard.
I am answering this Topical Issue matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy O'Brien. As the Deputy knows, the Minister commenced the Remediation of Dwellings Damaged by the Use of Defective Concrete Blocks Act 2022 on 22 June 2023, which provides for the enhanced grant scheme, and adopted the related regulations on 29 June 2023.
That Act includes significant improvements to the previous scheme, such as how the previous scheme's 90% maximum grant was increased to a 100% grant for all remediation options 1 to 5, and the maximum grant cap for option 1, that is, demolition and rebuild, was increased to €420,000 from €247,500.
A revised application process was introduced, which now only requires the homeowner to submit an initial building condition assessment at minimal cost, recoupable on entry to the scheme. Alternative accommodation and storage costs are included, subject to a maximum of €20,000. With regard to works carried out under remediation options 2 to 5, a second grant option is available for such a home in the future if blockwork that was not removed as part of the initial remediation work subsequently proves defective in accordance with IS 465.
This Act precludes a change in approved remediation options from 2 to 5 to an option 1, which is full demolition. In such circumstances, the DCB Act obliges a homeowner to submit a new application to the enhanced scheme, which the Deputy mentioned.
I understand that the Minister acknowledges that this may be a matter of concern for homeowners who submitted their original applications some time back and a change in circumstance has now arisen. In order to assist such homeowners in the submission of their revised application, an official from the Department wrote to the chief executive of Donegal County Council on 20 December 2023. In this letter, the Department confirmed the requirement for the certificate of compliance with planning and the additional information, which is required for an application under the enhanced scheme to be considered valid, can be provided at the point when a homeowner submits his or her remedial works plan. The letter also confirmed that applications received from a local authority relating to homeowners in these circumstances will be dealt with expeditiously and without delay by the Housing Agency. I understand that the Minister believes that these two measures, when taken together, will ensure that any additional burden placed on this group of homeowners will be kept to a minimum. The Deputy mentioned how this is a bureaucratic nightmare for people. Obviously, the Government does not want that. This approach will ensure that applications are dealt with as quickly as possible, while adhering to the legislative requirements laid down by the Oireachtas.
10:40 pm
Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the Minister of State for that response. Looking within that script and from listening to the feedback, there seems to be pathway. The issue at the moment, however, is that there is a communication deficit. That is where the difficulty lies. Going back to the original 90:10 scheme, when we all hoped that was going to be the vehicle for helping and assisting people to get out of this situation, communication was an issue then too. Communication is the issue all the time with regard to the difficulties in which people find themselves. This is a humanitarian crisis. There is no other description for it. We are dealing with victims who want their lives to move on.
Having thought about it for a considerable time, I believe this is too big an issue for one Department. Even in my contribution earlier, I was talking about primary and secondary school and the impact on third-level education. There is a role in the Minister of State's own Department and, in fact, the education and training board, ETB, in County Donegal has a submission into the Department of Education regarding assistance, help, support and resources for young people affected by defective blocks in Donegal.
Tonight, in Buncrana, for example, there is a residents meeting about a housing estate that was flooded in 2017. Nine of the houses have defective blocks and they are in a flood plain. The people have come up with a common-sense solution not to reconstruct the houses on this site and to look at relocation. Therefore, the OPW is involved. This is affecting people's health. The Department of Health is involved. I mentioned the Department of Education and OPW. We could go through a litany of other Departments. This complex issue is so wide and varied that I actually believe we need to look at an interdepartmental approach that must be led from the top. I am calling tonight publicly for Cabinet, the Taoiseach's Office and the Taoiseach and Tánaiste to really consider the possibility is setting up a Taoiseach-led interdepartmental group to deal with this issue. As far as I am concerned, since I have been involved in this scheme, there are massive deficits regarding, first, communication and, second, accountability because when things are said, they are not followed through and who is left in the lurch? It is the people who want their lives to move on. They feel they are locked in and fixed in a situation, and that trauma is not getting any lesser. It is an issue that we have. Never mind a legislative obligation, we have a moral obligation to tackle this issue and we still have time to do that.
Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the Deputy. As I said, I know he is very passionate about this matter and has been for a long time. He acknowledged that there does seem to be a pathway here. I hear his comments around communication, and I will bring that back to the Minister for housing. I will also bring back the Deputy's suggestion around an interdepartmental group.
He mentioned that he wants that review as soon as possible. I understand that this implementation steering group will produce a report on the operation of the enhanced scheme that covers the period July to December 2023, that is, the first six months of that scheme. It should be noted, obviously, that this is not a review of the fundamental terms and conditions of the scheme, but it is a report. That will be submitted for his consideration in the coming weeks to the Minister. I understand he will give it the due care and attention it deserves and note any recommendations of the group. I will certainly bring the Deputy's comments back to the relevant Ministers in this regard.