Dáil debates
Thursday, 8 February 2024
Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions
Flood Relief Schemes
10:10 am
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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7. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment to outline the number of applications received, approved and rejected under the emergency business flood relief scheme administered by the Red Cross on behalf of his Department; the total spend to date on the scheme; the flexibility with regard to the administration of the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5576/24]
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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It is almost four months to the day since Storm Babet hit Ireland and caused particular devastation in my part of the country, as the Minister well knows. I thank him and his colleagues for visiting and for the support given morally and financially since then. The scheme established by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment for businesses, operated through the Red Cross, has been very successful. I wish to give the Minister an opportunity to tell us how much has been expended on that scheme, how many applications were received and how many have been paid out.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have two different answers. My explanatory note is better than my speaking notes. I will give the Deputy some of the data because I know that is what he wants. When the initial allocation was approved in October last year, it was impossible to estimate the full extent of the damage caused and the number of businesses impacted by the exceptional weather events in the period around 17 October. The scheme was also extended to cover areas impacted by severe flooding up to and including 5 November in counties Waterford, Limerick, Kilkenny, Galway and Louth. Since the closing date, the Red Cross has reviewed all applications and is now advising that the total estimated payments will be around €11 million including management fees. I sought Government approval to increase the overall allocation for the scheme up to €11 million. It was previously €5.3 million, which the Deputy may recall.
As of Friday, 2 February, 349 applications were received by the Red Cross. Just over €5.2 was paid out between 217 successful applicants. The average payment under the enhanced scheme was €60,000. As of 25 January, just under €4.3 million was paid out to 177 applicants based in County Cork. In the context of the current scheme, there are 349 applicants. Some 140 of these are under the standard flooding scheme whereby people get an initial €5,000 and up to €20,000 following assessment. Some 152 applicants are under scheme B, if you like, in which you can get an initial €10,000 payment and up to €100,000 on assessment. Three applications were withdrawn from the scheme and 54 were not eligible. The current scheme, which closed to applicants on 15 December last, covered weather events in counties Cork, Galway, Louth, Wicklow, Waterford and Wexford. The geographical breakdown of each extension of the scheme of the 349 is as follows: 269 applicants from counties Cork, Waterford, Wicklow and Wexford; 31 from County Louth; and 49 from County Galway.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for his response. Has consideration been given to setting up an appeals mechanism? In other words, a mechanism whereby a second look can be given to those who were not successful the first time round, for whatever reason. As far as I am aware, most schemes have an in-built appeals mechanism whereby an independent person reviews the application to see if there is something that could be looked at in the event of an appeal. I am not aware of one in this particular case. Perhaps the Minister could consider it.
I also wish to raise the issue of under-insurance. As the Minister said, this was exceptional, devastating and unexpected. The Minister and I have been in business premises where water came up 3 ft or 4 ft and all stock was destroyed. Some of these premises had a lot of Christmas stock. The loss was huge in a small number. Insurance cover was not enough because what happened was so unexpected. Would it be possible to give consideration to helping businesses in cases like that?
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy knows, in addition to the establishing the Red Cross compensation scheme, we instructed Microfinance Ireland to work with businesses to try to put low-cost loans of up to €25,000 in place to help them from a cashflow point of view. I know that does not necessarily cover some of the questions the Deputy asked but it is worth raising. It is important to say that this is a humanitarian assistance scheme. We have given the Red Cross as much flexibility as we can but there must be qualification criteria. This is not a case of, essentially, the State picking up the tab for businesses that cannot be insured entirely. That would be a dangerous precedent to set and a dangerous signal to send to the insurance industry. We expect it to play its part too.
We know that people in some parts of the country simply cannot get insurance as a result of historical flooding or flood risk. When flooding hits those communities, the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, has to respond from a humanitarian point of view for households, families, etc., and my Department, working with the Red Cross, provides humanitarian assistance for businesses. This is by far the biggest application of that scheme since it was established ten years ago. Eleven million euro is a significant amount of money. The vast majority of applicants are in County Cork. Under the enhanced scheme, the amount businesses can get has increased fivefold. We have to learn lessons and try to improve the scheme if we can. We can look at things like under-insurance but it has to be a case of businesses not being able to get more insurance, as opposed to choosing only to insure stock and relying, potentially, on a Red Cross-type scheme to provide insurance for building premises or whatever. This is not a Red Cross insurance scheme, it is a humanitarian scheme that tries to help businesses get back on their feet.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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We could also argue that had the long-delayed flood management been in place when it should have, we would not be having this conversation. I ask the Minister to work hard to try to support his colleagues to get that up and running. The issue is that this was exceptional, unexpected and devastating. Many businesses were insured. In the normal course of events, the insurance cover they had would have sufficed but because this was so out of the ordinary, they were caught out badly. Some had a lot of Christmas stock in place at the time. This was destroyed. I ask the Minister to consider that. It was not a case that they could not get insurance.
They were insured up to the limit that would normally be sufficient. However, this was so out of the ordinary and exceptional that a small number have been caught and may not continue in business.
I also asked a question on the appeals system. Is there an appeals mechanism whereby somebody takes a second look in case a mistake was possibly made?I acknowledge and really welcome the scheme. It is fantastic and the Minister is committed to it. The flexibility shown to date has been really good but there are still lessons to be learned.
10:20 am
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy and I have met businesses that have been particularly badly impacted in Midleton together. If there are other individual schemes we can learn lessons from or if people feel they have been unfairly treated, I would like to hear about them because I would like to talk to the Red Cross about that. The Red Cross has done a great job on the whole. We are very reliant on it. Some have suggested that we should be doing this in-house through some of the agencies, Enterprise Ireland, the local enterprise offices and so on but I believe the Red Cross has, this time round, proven itself to be good at this and I want to continue to build on that relationship. It has been very helpful and responsive but that does not mean we cannot always try to improve. If there are cases of businesses the Deputy feels have been unfairly treated, I would like to hear about them.
There are dangers with an appeals mechanism when an agency like the Red Cross is making decisions on the basis of set criteria and on a humanitarian basis. I do not want to delay payments. I am not giving a definitive "No" to the suggestion but I want to keep this process as simple as possible. This is humanitarian assistance.