Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I move:

"That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I thank the Acting Chair for this opportunity to address the House and introduce Second Stage of the Research and Innovation Bill. The purpose of this Bill is to provide for the establishment of a new research and innovation funding agency, to be called Taighde Éireann. The Bill provides for the dissolution of Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, and the amalgamation of SFI and the Irish Research Council, IRC, to create the new agency. The purpose of this Bill is to create an agency with the capacity to address the very real issues we face as a society, in particular with regard to climate change and the digital transition, and to enable us to better engage and compete at an international level in terms of the opportunities ahead of us.

The Bill will give Taighde Éireann the ability to support a cohesive research and innovation system, thus providing the clarity of a shared mission. In so doing, we want to ensure that research and innovation is conducted using the highest standards of excellence, ethics and integrity across all disciplines and all career stages in all types of research. We want to provide a high quality system where higher education providers, research-performing organisations, cultural and social entities, enterprise and government can communicate and plan effectively. We want to break down any barriers to access and advance equality, diversity and inclusion and to ensure that each member of our society can be represented and can participate in and benefit from research that addresses their needs and their priorities.

The new agency is a vital step towards achieving the overarching objective of Impact 2030 - Ireland's Research and Innovation Strategy. This seeks to ensure that Ireland's collective research and innovation investments and activities make as big a difference as possible to as many people as possible. Impact 2030 is about pulling the strands of the research and innovation system together into a cohesive and purposeful network to progress objectives that are shared across Government, across the education system and across stakeholder groups.

The strategy puts research and innovation at the heart of Ireland's economic and social development for the foreseeable future in addressing our social, economic and environmental challenges. The purpose of the strategy is to maximise the impact of research and innovation on national priorities, on progressing shared objectives and on using research and innovation to inform public policymaking and implementation. Creating efficiencies and limiting the duplication of activities is also a significant aim of this process.

Deputies will appreciate our need to nurture and attract world-class research talent to retain our position as an advanced economy and to ensure that we continue to be recognised internationally for our research and innovation excellence, ethics and integrity. These goals are captured in the objects and functions of Taighde Éireann. The new agency will build on the strengths of both the IRC and SFI to ensure effective support of all disciplines. The Bill will place arts, humanities and social sciences on an equal and statutory footing for the first time. This is an important moment. Not many people necessarily know this, but the Irish Research Council, which does incredible work, does not exist on a statutory footing, so I say to the arts, humanities and social science research community that this is the first time we are actually providing that parity of esteem by placing those elements on a statutory footing, rather than the incredible work the IRC has done but on a non-statutory footing. It is an important step towards parity of esteem, access to research funding and greater consistency for this research community.

In addition, it will enhance the role of arts, humanities and social sciences in contributing to interdisciplinary and challenge-based research, which is essential to make progress on complex problems. Researchers in these disciplines will be able to lead teams in their own right for the very first time. The new agency will ensure parity of esteem not only between disciplines, but also between career stages and research types.

I recognise and understand that people have concerns about losing the strength or brand recognition of SFI and the IRC, as well as the competence and expertise of their staff. These are crucial strengths upon which to further develop the public research funding system.

Every effort is being made to protect those strong reputations built up over years of excellent work. The expertise, dedication and professionalism of their staff lie at the heart of the existing organisations’ performance and will be central to the success of the new agency. Operational stability and continuity of service to the research community will be a priority during the transition.

I will now move to the text of the Bill. This Bill will enable the creation of a new research and innovation funding agency, Taighde Éireann, or Research Ireland. The agency will contribute to the realisation of the programme for Government, national development plan and Impact 2030 policy aims of creating a cohesive and efficient national research and innovation system with the capacity to address national challenges and embrace new opportunities. The Bill provides a legal basis for the functions of Taighde Éireann and the role of the Minister. The agency will be responsible for securing the achievement of Government objectives for the research and innovation system and for ensuring accountability and value for money in the use of public funds. This Bill repeals Part 2 of the Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) Act 2003, sections 3, 4, 5 and 6 of the Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) (Amendment) Act 2013 and sections 11, 12 and 13 of the Industrial Development (Forfás Dissolution) Act 2014. The Bill revokes the Science Foundation Ireland superannuation scheme 2016, SI 594 of 2016.

Before I outline the specifics in this Bill, I will state the objectives of the new agency, which are important. They are: to promote the attainment and maintenance of excellence in the standard and quality of research and innovation undertaken; to support the undertaking of research and innovation in all fields of activity and disciplines by researchers with different levels of knowledge, experience and specialist skills in such fields or disciplines; to promote and support the contribution made by research and innovation to economic, social, cultural and environmental development and sustainability in the State; to strengthen the engagement of the research and innovation system with the Government, Ministers of the Government and bodies, whether statutory or otherwise, funded wholly or partly by public moneys and enterprise, non-governmental organisations, cultural institutions and society generally; to promote and develop the reputation of the State internationally as a location favourable for undertaking research and innovation; and to advance the principles of equality, diversity and inclusion with regard to opportunities to undertake research and innovation and in the undertaking of that research and innovation.

I will now outline the specific parts and key sections of the Bill. Sections 1 to 5 are standard provisions relating to the Short Title and commencement, interpretation, regulations, orders, expenses, repeals and revocation. Sections 6 and 7 deal with the establishment day and the establishment of the new agency. Section 8 lists the objects or key principles that apply to Taighde Éireann when undertaking its functions, which we have already spoken about. Section 9 lists the functions of Taighde Éireann. They are to: promote the objects of the agency; promote and develop research and innovation in the State by designing and administering funding schemes in accordance with international good practice for the award and disbursement of funding for research and innovation in accordance with Part 3; support the development and maintenance of a national system of research and innovation in co-operation and collaboration with An tÚdarás um Ard-Oideachais, Enterprise Ireland and the other bodies to which section 48 applies and such other persons and bodies in the higher education and research system or the research and innovation system as the agency considers appropriate; promote research and innovation which supports the development and competitiveness of enterprise and employment in the State, nationally and regionally, in co-operation and collaboration with Enterprise Ireland and the other bodies to which section 48 applies; promote the engagement, retention and development of the skills and capacity of researchers of an excellent standard in the national system of research and innovation and, as may be appropriate, to do so in co-operation with the HEA and other bodies to which section 48 applies; promote the attracting to the State of research and innovation teams of an excellent standard and individuals with an interest in research and innovation of an excellent standard with a view to carrying out research and innovation in the State. In co-operation with an t-údarás, its functions are to: promote and support the undertaking of research and innovation in the higher education and research system and in the research and innovation system; contribute to the development, assessment and evaluation of research and innovation to ensure that a standard and quality of excellence are consistently adhered to by those in the research and innovation system; promote the links and mutual benefits between research and innovation undertaken and teaching and learning activities in the higher education system; promote the success of research and innovation undertaken in the State which is supported by awards of funding made by an international or European Union body, institution or organisation; promote co-operation and collaboration with regard to research and innovation between those who fund or undertake research and innovation in the State and those who do so in Northern Ireland; assess and evaluate the outcomes and, where appropriate, the impact on economic, social, cultural and environmental development and sustainability grounds of research and innovation undertaken, for which funding is awarded by the agency; promote and support awareness and understanding of the value of research and innovation to society and facilitate the engagement of members of the public with those engaged in research and innovation activities; support the undertaking of research and innovation that informs the development of public policy and encourages and facilitates the collation and sharing of findings of research and innovation for that purpose; enter into funding partnerships; and advise the Minister in relation to national policy on research and innovation in accordance with section 14.

Section 10 provides standard provisions for the appointment of consultants, advisers and assessors. Sections 11 to 14 provide that the Minister may give directions and issue guidelines in writing to the agency, that the agency shall provide reports and information to the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science on any matter related to the performance of the functions of the new agency; and that the agency may provide advice to the Minister on any matter related to the performance of its functions. Sections 15 to 21 relate to the board of the new agency. These are standard provisions that the agency shall have a board established under this Bill to perform the functions of the agency. Board appointments will be made by the Minister and will be competency-based. The board will have 12 members comprising a chairperson and 11 ordinary members with gender balance and including at least one member nominated by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The board may establish committees, to be known as councils, to advise it about the performance of its functions. Sections 22 to 27 provide for a grant to the agency each year from funds provided by the Oireachtas; the preparation and adoption by the agency of a corporate plan every five years; an annual plan to be prepared by the agency; the keeping of accounts by the agency; the audit of these accounts by the Comptroller and Auditor General; the laying of the accounts and report on the accounts before each House of the Oireachtas; and the preparation of an annual report by the agency by 30 June each year and the laying of that report before the Houses of the Oireachtas and gifts to the agency from any other sources. Sections 28 to 31 are standard provisions in relation to the role of the chief executive officer of the agency. Sections 32 to 34 are standard provisions in relation to the staff of the agency including superannuation and prohibition of unauthorised disclosure by members of staff of the agency of confidential information except where required by law or as a protected disclosure. Part 3 deals with arrangements for the funding of research and innovation. Sections 35 to 48 outline requirements around funding partnerships engaged in by the agency and arrangements with Ministers concerning collaboration on research and innovation. Section 48 deals with administrative co-operation with other bodies.

The agency shall prepare and establish a framework, with the approval of the Minister, for the allocation of funding. Funding to bodies shall be made in accordance with such conditions of funding as specified by the chief executive officer of the agency. The chief executive officer of the agency may request and use information provided by other bodies to establish whether a research programme meets the criteria, terms and conditions of the funding framework and to ensure a funded body is compliant on an ongoing basis with the conditions of funding. The chief executive officer may request a review of compliance with conditions of funding by a funded body and may issue appropriate directions in writing regarding continued compliance with the conditions of funding. The chief executive officer may impose remedial or other measures on the funded body for non-compliance with the agreed conditions of funding.

Part 4 consists of Sections 49 and 50, which provide for the collection and sharing of personal and non-personal data from funded bodies subject to the data protection regulation, the Data Protection Act 2018 and the Data Sharing and Governance Act 2019. Part 5 deals with transitional, consequential and miscellaneous considerations. Sections 51 to 60 outline the processes and obligations around the dissolution of SFI, including the transfer of staff, property, contracts, records, rights and liabilities of the dissolved body and arrangements for the final accounts and final annual report of the dissolved body. References in enactments or instruments to the dissolved body are also dealt with. Sections 61 to 65 deal with the transfer of staff, records, rights, and liabilities from an t-údarás to the new agency. Section 66 provides for necessary amendments of the Higher Education Authority Act 2022 to include references to the new agency and to facilitate co-operation between the HEA and the new agency. Section 67 amends Schedule 5 to the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 to include Taighde Éireann in the list of specified bodies. Section 68 details the process for the service of notices from the agency.

I should highlight that my Department intends to bring forward some technical amendments on Committee Stage. They will be operational in nature and will not impact the policy intent of the legislation as I described it. That is the content of the Bill. There is a lot of technical detail in the establishment of a new agency. We are trying to create a new, national funding agency that builds on the incredible strengths of SFI and the IRC and puts on a statutory footing for the first time all elements of research. It tries to bring about parity of esteem and recognises that more and more, when we look at things through a research and innovation lens, it requires interdisciplinary work. It requires the arts and humanities working with other elements of science. We are learning from best practice in a number of other jurisdictions. I look forward to working with members from all sides of this House to get this legislation right in the time ahead.

We promised a transformational programme of research and development and we want Ireland to be at the cutting edge of scientific and technological innovation. I know that is something we all share. In terms of delivery, the purpose-specific interdisciplinary research centres have been established. We now have our co-centre programmes, which are really exciting because for the very first time on this island, and, indeed, on our neighbouring island, we will all start working together on some of the big challenges. As Members will know, we have created two of these co-centre programmes to support collaborative research partnerships across Ireland, Britain and Northern Ireland, creating virtual centres of excellence which link researchers across academia and industry to perform cutting-edge research on shared priorities. Linkages between research and enterprise, with a particular focus on encouraging collaboration with domestic SMEs, have also been extended. We have increased the PhD stipend, and intend to go further on that because we have to support our researchers. Next month, I will publish the final report of the independent review on PhD researchers and how we support them not just through the stipend but also a whole variety of issues that needed to be looked at, many of which cut across a number of Departments. I look forward to publishing that final report next month and working with the House on how we take action.

However, the most important and the flagship of these commitments regarding research and innovation is the establishment of this new research funding agency, Taighde Éireann. The legislation before us creates an agency designed to support the emerging research and innovation needs of society and to build on the highly regarded and successful research and innovation participation in the EU and internationally. The aims are ambitious because, as a country, we need to be. We are facing challenges before us with clear-eyed realism but also with a sense of hope and optimism. We know our brightest and best will enable us to meet these challenges. They proved their mettle during the pandemic. We have a template in place and this involves the most intelligent, innovative, talented, creative, hard-working people in our country collaborating with their peers and colleagues across disciplines and research stages, sharing knowledge, learning and skills, accelerating developments and working together on forcing solutions for the issues we face as a country.

I am very conscious, as we establish a new agency, that colleagues in this House and people in the research community will quite rightly point to the need to meet the ambition of agency with an ambitious level of funding and I assure this House, both in terms of increasing PhD stipends and finishing the journey there and the need for an ambitious capital programme around research, work is under way on my part to deliver this as part of the ongoing capital review. This agency will make a significant impact to Ireland's economic, social, cultural and environmental development and sustainability by targeting funding to these priority issues and by setting up challenge-funding calls to ensure the greatest possible impact. I look forward to working with everyone in both Houses to pass this legislation and to establish Taighde Éireann.

Mairead Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as sin. I am glad we are discussing the Bill in the Dáil today and I am also glad to see so many Members have indicated they want to participate in this particular discussion. As the Minister mentioned, I also look forward in the coming weeks to having that collaboration and looking at the Bill in even greater detail because, of course, we are hoping we will see from this a new departure for promoting research and development in this State and not just looking at a reorganisation of our two existing research funding bodies. I welcome the name "Taighde Éireann". It is a lovely name. As somebody who is very interested in the Irish language, I like the fact that it has such a strong name. I also hope that this merger does not have any unintended consequences when it comes to the distribution of funding between disciplines. We have had a very strong emphasis on STEM subjects and that is something the education committee worked on in great detail. We know that science, technology, engineering and mathematics are hugely important subjects, and ones in which I am particularly interested as well, but they are also subjects that produce research, the output of which is often more easily quantifiable in monetary terms. This arises from the production of intellectual property, industrial designs, licence agreements, copyrights and so on and these are key elements of any successful economy. However, we must also recognise that research in the humanities produces output that may not have an immediately recognisable monetary value but is no less important. This research is often essential to the construction and development of society and, therefore, these must be two wings of the two birds. We need to make sure we approach research and innovation with all of this in mind. One of things some of those who are engaged in science at third level often say is that we also need to look at the trealamh - this is what happens sometimes when science is done through Irish in secondary school. In English, this is the equipment that is there to makes sure that the people who want to study sciences and progress, who have great ideas and want to contribute to society here, have the ability to use the top-class equipment. It is really important that we see that level of investment in that regard as well.

We will discuss the Revised Estimates in committee later but I think the Minister of State, Deputy Collins, is taking them rather than the Minister, Deputy Harris. I was reviewing the Revised Estimates for 2024 and some of the figures produced by the Department on the State's approach to research and innovation were quite interesting. The Department has not yet published figures for 2023 or provided a forecast for this year but I imagine that is probably due to Taighde Éireann being in the process of being established. It is worth highlighting that according to the European innovation scoreboard, our score in 2021 was 11, which then fell to six a year later. The Revised Estimates did not provide the figure for 2023 but I managed to locate this on the European Commission's website. It showed improvement last year but noted some ongoing weaknesses, which included research and development expenditures in the public sector; investment in environment-related technologies; non-research and development innovation expenditures; and enterprises providing ICT training and lifelong learning. The new Taighde Éireann body will not be able to address all these weaknesses so its establishment will need to be matched, of course, with our renewed focus within this Chamber. On the Revised Estimates, the last year for which the Department provides figures for gross expenditure on research and development is 2021 and in that year we spent as low as 1.5% as a proportion of GNI*. That is obviously lower than the expenditure of states such as Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Belgium and so on, but it is equivalent to the likes of Greece, Poland, Hungary, Lithuania and a number of others and, therefore, we need to use this as an opportunity to state that we are taking research and development, innovation and so on seriously and put a renewed focus on it.

We have had a situation in this country for a number of years where intellectual property has been located here, which realistically has been a result of tax policy. However, that really means that the research and development was carried out elsewhere and domiciled here. What we need to look at now is upping our level of domestic expenditure because there are so many people with so many ideas as well and the Minister knows that from going around the different universities. We meet students who have exciting ideas and they see opportunities here that they wish to pursue. We need to give them everything in our power to be able to do that and make sure we have a very holistic approach. We also need to think of those who undertake this level of research and the institutions themselves that encourage this type of research. When we are looking at that and at these young people - older people too, people of all ages - who are potentially starting off in a career and looking at what they can contribute, one of those groups of people is the PhD researchers who have ideas, want to follow up on them and bring those ideas to fruition. One of the big issues for them is the rent, which is a significant overhead. I was just down in Trinity College Dublin where there was a protest about the cost of student accommodation. The message was very clear. What the students want now is reduced rents. Therefore, we need to look at the PhD researchers being included in the student renters tax credit as well. I understand that this falls under the responsibility of the Ministers, Deputies O'Brien and McGrath, but perhaps that is something the Minister, Deputy Harris, can raise with them. The tax credit in itself is not the be-all and end-all for these students who are paying extremely high rents but every little will help for them. We know that most PhD researchers struggle to support themselves.

This is something that definitely should be looked at, particularly because those PhD researchers are the type of people that we will rely on into the future, providing the leadership in that research. Unfortunately, there is the issue of the unaffordability of student accommodation. It was very clear from the report that Trinity College Dublin Students' Union just did was that they are overreliant on extremely high-cost accommodation. This is particularly the case for international students who might be coming in to do PhDs or other courses and are relying on vulture fund-owned student accommodation.

I might just touch on the continuation of the employment control framework, which means the continuation of high pupil-to-staff ratios. This is one of metrics by which Irish universities are ranked. I have a concern that it could drag our ranking down. It has also been flagged at European level that it infringes on university autonomy in addition to requiring them to continue the practice of using precarious employment contracts to try to circumvent the framework.

I am sure the Minister has seen that IFUT recently produced an excellent report that laid out in stark detail the precarious levels of employment in third level institutions, which, again, is not helping those who are trying to provide research and innovation. The survey by IFUT found that almost 40% of respondents identified as precariously employed. Precarious employment in academia means many early doctoral graduates are leaving research. If we create a situation where talented doctoral graduates are then poached by universities in other countries, we will cut the legs from under ourselves.

Finally, I want to flag the National Training Fund, which is something that is of keen interest to an awful lot of people in the sector. I have been trying to find out what is going on with the legislation underlying the fund because most informed observers seem to be clear that there is an issue where the fund is prevented from funding further training and skills. However, finding out exactly what it is is not straightforward. When it comes to the fund, the Minister's Department has a particular responsibility but the Departments of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, and Finance are also partly responsible. However, when we table parliamentary questions, everybody seems to be pointing their fingers every which way. Perhaps the Minister could make a commitment that he is going to get to the bottom of this once and for all. Universities have been calling for a fund to help them pay for laboratory and other research consumables. At the same time, not far off €2 billion is just sitting in the National Training Fund, which then gets invested in low-yield Exchequer notes. I cannot fully understand why that is happening. I have ideas but maybe the Minister could clarify that. It is high time for a move on it.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I am grateful for the opportunity to make a contribution. The Bill, and the creation of a singular body, Taighde Éireann, is an important move in research and development in this State. Unfortunately, Ireland has long been a poor investor in research and development. The White Paper on enterprise states that research, development and innovation are the best ways to generate sustainable, long-term productivity growth, and I completely agree with that.

However, analysis of European and global indicators shows that Ireland is drifting in the wrong direction on innovation scorecards and on international competitiveness in the area of research and development. We have moved in the right direction on the European innovation scorecard, and we are classed as a strong innovator. However, we are not yet an innovation leader similar to Belgium, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands and Sweden. The European scorecard indicates that our performance is at 118.9% of the EU average but our lead over the EU is becoming smaller. On the global innovation index, we have drifted from 12th to 19th, and on the International Institute for Management Development world competitiveness indicator, we have drifted seventh to 13th. Furthermore, we do not perform that well with regard to the creation of new patents, which is often used as an indicator of successful STEM research.

Ireland needs to improve and become an innovation leader. As a State, we have often had a tax-based policy, which can be welcomed by business in some instances. However, an unintended consequence of that policy is that sometimes intellectual property is relocated here rather than having the research, which leads to the creation of the intellectual property, actually conducted here. It is important to examine State investment and policy support in addition to a streamlined and well-functioning tax-based policy. Additionally, it is imperative that we examine the issue of the number of PhD students dropping out of their doctorates and early doctoral graduates leaving research due to employment precarity. Current funding structures for PhD students almost exclude any student who cannot home or be supported financially by their family. If this is not addressed, it could create an unrepresentative class of researchers and academics thereafter. There are obviously other PhD students who work part time and are put to the pin of their collars in making ends meet, and this is incredibly unfair. A full-time PhD is a full-time enterprise that requires the total academic dedication of the student and this has to be accounted for.

Since the majority of State funding for research and development moved from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment to the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, there has been somewhat of a sidelining of the role of industry in research and development. This is reinforced by the board membership for Taighde Éireann. The enterprise sector currently accounts for 80% of our national investment in research, development and innovation but only has a single nominee to the board. What additional mechanisms will be implemented at governance level to ensure the input of this significant stakeholder group can be recognised and actioned? Is there any possibility that the State economic agencies will be considered for full board seats? Finally, with regard to the structures of the new body, where does the new advisory structure laid out in the Bill fit with the advisory structures recommended in Impact 2030 of the advisory forum, implementation forum and steering group?

I would finally like to refer to a matter raised by my colleague, Teachta Farrell, which s the high cost of rents. It would be brilliant if students could live in announcements because obviously, every student would be housed adequately. Unfortunately, they cannot live in announcements; they need to live in accommodation. It is driving PhD and postdoctoral students into work when they should be studying and researching. We will be all the poorer for the loss of that intellectual property that they would create, the contribution they could make to research, development and innovation and the contribution that would make to the economy. Effectively, the Government's housing policy, and the housing crisis that has been created by the Government, is locking these people out. We will be the poorer as a State, economy and society because of that.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Bill, which proposes to merge two existing research funding agencies into a new entity, Taighde Éireann. It will be important that this step is matched by efforts from Government to address Ireland's poor performance in funding research and development when compared to EU standards.

Making Ireland competitive in this context will be key, among other things, to a just energy transition, our energy security and, ultimately, our energy independence. While there are challenges, the decarbonisation of our economy and society represents an immense opportunity that could see us deliver an energy future led by renewables, and a future driven by green industry, by well-paid green jobs and an economy that is agile, resilient and driven by innovation, collaboration and real partnership. It would be a future in which natural resources are translated into national wealth for all.

Weaning our country off our dependence on fossil fuel imports is key to protecting workers, families and our economy from the types of international energy shocks that have led to soaring electricity bills in the past two years. A green future is not a given, however. It will depend on a combination of policy choices that are sufficiently urgent and ambitious to deliver on Ireland's immense potential. Central to that is research and innovation. We are lagging behind international counterparts. It is crucial, therefore, that we see a step change in approach that is inspired, motivated and fully mobilised behind the vision of an Ireland that can power itself in a way that is clean, sustainable and secure and that translates into affordable energy for workers, families and businesses. We need the Government to prioritise the building of a workforce that is adequately prepared and resourced to deliver energy security and independence and to achieve our targets. This is an issue that I have raised repeatedly with the Minister, Deputy Ryan, and others.

To secure Ireland's just transition, it is absolutely crucial that we have the right people, and enough of them, doing the right jobs. Ultimately, the talent, skills, education and expertise of our people will power our renewable energy transformation to the next level. Without them, Ireland's energy revolution will remain out of reach. The Government must step up and play its part fully. It must get serious in focusing on training, upskilling and reskilling people to develop a workforce that can deliver the renewable energy revolution, reach our targets and achieve energy independence for Ireland. This will require the Government working closely with the renewable sector, second and third level education, technical unions and local government. That needs to happen.

We also must see the State leading not just on workforce planning and resourcing but also on research and innovation. We see the need for this time and again. I attended the Wind Energy Ireland conference yesterday and I meet regularly with stakeholders. There are areas where there are huge opportunities for Ireland. Two examples are hydrogen and floating offshore wind. We hear repeatedly that the State is taking a cautious, wait-and-see approach rather than being an early adopter. Other countries, including Norway, Japan, Portugal and Scotland, are taking a different approach and will realise the benefits of that. I appreciate risks and challenges in scaling up and other considerations must be taken into account. However, there are immense opportunities to secure a pipeline to develop the technologies that can push pioneering research, innovation and science. That does not happen by chance. Government and State agencies must lead by example. It is clear that with the proper tools and supports, the workers of Ireland can drive forward the country's energy revolution. They are the engine of Ireland's transition and they must be supported by the Government.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I do not propose to take the full 20 minutes allocated in this slot. The speaker after me on the list might be listening to proceedings and may come to the Chamber.

I welcome the Bill. It is a progressive step forward for a country like ours, which, in global terms, is relatively small. It is only right that we have one strong agency overseeing the funding resources to ensure all the disciplines are funded. That is, in essence, what is being created under the Bill. I am seeking today a greater sense of security or certainty around the humanities and social sciences in particular.

The Minister stated in his introduction:

The new agency will build on the strengths of both the IRC and SFI to ensure effective support of all disciplines. The Bill will place arts, humanities and social sciences on an equal and statutory footing for the first time... [ensuring] parity of esteem, access to research funding and greater consistency for this research community.

I take him absolutely at his word in this regard. I am seeking clarity on where in the Bill are the specific provisions that reflect those words of his. I would be grateful if he would deal with that in his reply. I think there will be agreement in the House that it could be perceived that people in what I call the non-applied areas in the humanities and social sciences may feel a sense of worry about this legislation. I imagine postdoctoral and other researchers in the applied humanities and social sciences will see potential opportunities and the Minister's words will give them some comfort. However, in the non-applied space, I seek some comfort from him as to where those people stand within our research infrastructure and within the higher education institutions, HEIs. That is the second point on which I am seeking clarity.

The third point relates to composition of the board of the new agency. It is notable that Professor Philip Nolan was appointed to the body, which is to be known as Taighde Éireann - Research Ireland, long before it has even been established. That appointment was well signposted within the community. I have spoken to many long-suffering researchers - I describe them as such because of the challenges they face in seeking access to funding - who thought this was all a done deal. It is good that we are now promulgating the legislation and dealing in real time with the factual position that the new entity has not yet been established. That is now a matter of record here in the Dáil. It certainly was the perception of many people within the research community that its establishment was already done and dusted.

Professor Nolan, who attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science last year, is an eminent person. I think we will all agree there is no better person to lead the new agency. We wish him well. I take the opportunity to acknowledge the professionalism of the staff in SFI, whom I have had the pleasure of dealing with historically, and also the staff of the IRC. They are absolutely brilliant people. When Professor Nolan was asked at the committee about the composition of the board of the new agency, he replied:

I will very briefly go back to diversity and breadth of skills. What the board needs to be able to do is deliver a strategy that is internationally credible and competitive, whereby peers internationally would say that agency is going to deliver for its country and we respect it. It needs to be able to allocate the funding in a manner that is entirely based on the quality of the proposal and not swayed by any other consideration, and it needs to provide for the good governance of a public agency so that there is no question about propriety, value for money and so on within the operations of the agency. That brings us back to the fact that a broad range of skills is required on the board. To my mind, that would include largely international representation of active researchers to say we know how research is done internationally and this is a valid strategy and a valid allocation of funding.

That is all laudable and nobody would disagree with those aspirations. Where the Labour Party needs clarity is on the question of whether there will be a specific person appointed on the humanities and social sciences side who falls within that remit. Will there be a voice on the board to speak for the humanities and social sciences? I do not mean to quote Professor Nolan out of context but he made that statement when he was before the Oireachtas committee. I am not sure whether I got enough comfort from his words about the composition of the board in regard to the appointment of a specific person to deal with and advocate for funding for the humanities and social sciences. That is the third point on which I seek further clarity from the Minister.

I cannot talk about the creation of this new entity, which we welcome, without mentioning the news reports in the past 24 to 48 hours regarding the €11.2 million deficit that University College Cork, UCC, is currently running. Emma O'Kelly of RTÉ reported:

Professor John O'Halloran [the president] said the college had notified the Higher Education Authority and was working with it to return the university to a sustainable financial position. A review of capital projects will form part of this plan.

While this issue is not germane to the legislation, it could have an impact.

If HEIs are running deficits and need to bring them down, my fear is that, aside from capital projects, the squeeze will be put on headcount and resources. The Minister will be able to clarify that for me.

I fear for UCC if it tries to take out €11.2 million, which represents 2.4% of the institution's income. I do not what know the value of the projects referred to by the president of the college but if it is less than €11.2 million, savings will have to be found elsewhere. The fear I have for postdoctoral students, those on precarious contracts or those who operate within schools or departments in universities is that we will not see people going from below-the-bar lecturer status to senior lecturer. We will not see promotions or progression. Eventually, we will have a situation such as that which exists now right across the board. This is a scenario where fewer and fewer people are doing more and more work, managing schools across the HEIs. We are not seeing enough people being hired or allowed to progress. If we are to be world class and measure up to the principles of excellence in research, we need to get access to the big funding to meet what are called the grand societal challenges. However, if researchers are hampered or there is a downward pressure on progression and researchers having good careers that allow them to apply for funding, then this is all for naught.

I do not think we can address this legislation without talking about the challenges that individual researchers and schools within HEI's are facing on a day-to-day basis. I would be very grateful if the Minister could give us some sense of his and the Government's thinking on this because I think it dovetails with the Bill.

I welcome the legislation. If we can get some comfort from the Minister regarding the humanities and social sciences in the non-applied space, the composition of the board and the issue of the deficit, I would be very happy.

Alan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for being here. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill which I believe will set research and innovation on a pathway to success into the future and provide a suite of benefits that will put Ireland very much on the front foot in this field. I commend the Minister and his officials on their work on the Bill and I look forward to engaging with them as this Bill progresses and when its provisions are implemented following the passing of all Stages. As a former member of the education committee, I am only too aware of the extraordinary importance not just of research and innovation but third-level institutions and all they offer the State. Education is the great enabler. It is so important that we invest in our future and young people so that they can fuel the economy of the future and themselves.

As the Minister highlighted, the core tenet of the Bill is to facilitate the creation of a new funding agency which will lead and manage funding for research and innovation across a wide range of disciplines and sectors and pull together these fields in the common goal of creating better systems and better solutions.

I firmly believe that through well-funded and dynamic research and development, Ireland can become a hotbed of ground-breaking innovation that has the potential to contribute to extraordinary solutions to some of the biggest challenges facing our world, everything from medical science to climate change to economic and social innovation. I reiterate the remarks of my fellow climate action committee member a few moments ago, when he referred to that innovation on the climate action front. We are on the cusp of the wind energy revolution that the Minister referred to yesterday and that I and others have been talking about for several years. It is that sort of innovation in solar technology and other areas that will make an extraordinary difference to our world. We have the capacity on this island to play a very significant role in that.

In turn, I believe these developments will attract talent and investment to Ireland, contribute to the creation of an increasing number of jobs across many sectors, provide new avenues of study for our young people and, importantly, keep them here. We have no shortage of potential in this country. Harnessing that potential can bring major advances in society and bolster our impact upon the wider world. Measures such as those contained in the Bill, working in tandem with other reforms to our higher education sector, will lead to a more diverse and creative country, one that is ready to respond to the challenges of today and those that tomorrow will bring. In particular, I commend the work being done by the Minister, Deputy Harris, with regard to increasing the numbers of apprenticeships in the State. Between 2020 and 2023 alone, we have seen an increase of 54% in the number of registrations for apprenticeship schemes, equating to a total of more than 30,000 people in that time. This is a good news story for Ireland and our young people. I urge the Minister to continue on that path and provide funding towards even more apprenticeships, to go beyond the targets that he has set and which have been taken up so encouragingly across the State.

Moreover, we have seen the launch of the first ever higher education courses outside of the points system, with 23 such courses launched last September. This was a historic step that expands access to education to more people. It would be remiss of me not to mention the development of more institutes of technology across the country, providing local educational options for people in their communities. In my constituency, the new Dublin Fingal East, I eagerly await the delivery and development of the Swords college of the future, which will provide a state-of-the-art campus that will cater for 1,000 full-time students with up to 6,000 qualifications issued per annum, when combined with upskilling and retraining courses that will be provided on campus. The Minister will not be at all surprised to hear that I eagerly await the announcement of the site acquisition and I look forward to the planning application going in on that particular project. It is critical to a community like Swords, which is growing at an extraordinary rate, as I am sure has been the case in many other constituencies across the country, particularly in the last decade or 15 years.

Projects such as these not only benefit people in the locality but have a direct impact on the long-term development of our country, particularly given its proximity to the airport, such a large provider of GDP and employment. By investing in people and their creativity, we are investing in a brighter, more productive and more dynamic future. The Bill before us speaks to that aspiration and to a pathway that will allow us to achieve that goal. Internationally, we are renowned for our capacity and creativity. This has led our people to the top of many fields throughout history. The creation of this new agency will help to create a new chapter in that history and bring us to the forefront of international research and development.

I also welcome the Minister’s comments on and commitment to increasing the level of support for PhD candidates, which I believe will attract more people into these avenues, many of whom carry out important research that shapes their respective fields. I look forward to working with he Minister and his Department on delivering this commitment. I am also encouraged by the recent reductions in the student contribution fee, the increase to the student maintenance grant and the decision by the Minister to invest directly in accommodation. This is such an important step. It is not necessarily relevant to this Bill but it is incredibly important for students who are starting their lives in third level or further education. It gives them a basis of stability which is so important, as the Minister well knows, when it comes to their ability to concentrate on the most important thing they are doing at this time, namely, engaging in education, rather than worrying about other matters.

I am very pleased, as I have said before at the committee and in this Chamber, to recognise the new emphasis that has been placed on higher and further education and research and innovation by this Government and the Minister.

I commend the officials in the Department for the extraordinary work they have done in such a relatively short period of time. I look forward to the passage of the Bill and the work that has been done thus far coming to fruition.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Bill and strongly welcome the establishment of Taighde Éireann, which will be the new competitive research funding agency for all higher education bodies around the country.

I raise the issue of the South East Technological University, SETU, about which the Minister and I have had many discussions. With respect to research capacity in areas in the south east, I am taken by the fact that the new site acquired by the university, the old Waterford Crystal site, is going to be a new enterprise hub and innovation centre. There is talk of colocating enterprise and research in the hub. That will be very important for the south east and is something of which I am supportive. The question is whether that will be resourced and if the organisation will get the capital funding it needs. As the Minister knows, I was a strong and enthusiastic supporter of the technological university. In all the meetings the Minister and I had on the issue, I said that the job for us in the south east is to make it the best technological university we can. We in the south east have a strong track record of research, as the Minister knows, through the telecommunications software and systems group, TSSG, ArcLabs Research and Innovation Centre and much else besides. I know from presentations I have seen given by the president of the university in the campuses in Carlow and Waterford that research is a big part of where she wants to take the university, expanding on the good work that was done by the Waterford and Carlow institutes of technology. There are many opportunities in that regard. The new body that will be established will bring a level of coherence to that approach and is crucial to the success of the university in the south east. We need to ensure there are clear links between enterprise, job creation, research and development, and delivering for students on the one hand and for the wider region on the other. If the Minister has the chance to respond, I hope he will reference the site that was acquired in Waterford, how it will impact the south east, what additional level of funding will be provided and where research will fall in relation to all of that. I also hope he will share his views as to how we can make it the best possible university.

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I will pick up on a couple of the points made by Deputies Cullinane and Sherlock. This is welcome legislation. The Minister, in a relatively new Department, has made a habit of producing substantial and consequential pieces of legislation. I think back to the Higher Education Authority Act, which was an excellent and much-needed piece of work. The same applies to this legislation. We hope it will stand the test of time and it is worth reflecting on the pace of change in the research landscape. The first document I ever typed on a computer was my master's thesis. Before that, all of the papers I submitted to college were handwritten. It is hard to think, even at this remove, that we would have been at that kind of analogue stage. It is difficult to visualise what our research environment is going to look like 25 or 30 years from now, particularly when we look at the pace of change we are seeing in areas where humans are now being assisted by technology. Artificial intelligence and those large language models are the things that have brought it to the public consciousness but enormous strides have also been made in quantum computing and will make our computers much more powerful in all sorts of ways. That is going to drive our research and innovation space forward. It is appropriate, with that increasing rate of change in the research environment, to pause and take stock and think what we are going to be talking about when we talk about what we do as educators or researchers. It comes back to one of the points raised by Deputy Sherlock about funding for the humanities and social sciences and having that voice represented on the board, which is important. It is also important to allocate the right amount of emphasis to pure or non-applied research. I know from talking to people in the sector that it is a lot easier to get funding for applied research because one can find a relevant partner within industry, who will say they need this or that piece of work done to create this or that output. That is fine and well, and there is a place for it, but we must also ensure we are defending space for the humanities and a space where people can engage in pure or non-applied research because very often, we do not know today where we will apply those things but five or ten years down the road they may prove to be the more significant pieces of research.

I thank the Library and Research Service for the excellent Bills digests it produces for all the legislation that passes before the House. One of the things I find particularly useful, especially as a member of the education committee that spent a long time considering the Bill at the pre-legislative scrutiny stage, is the work the service does in comparing and contrasting the recommendations made by the committee on pre-legislative scrutiny and what we find on Second Stage. That is a useful tool to look back on the things that were raised to us as committee members and see if they are reflected in the legislation or not.

I am going to pause first on recommendation No. 4, and this picks up a little on what Deputy Cullinane was talking about. Recommendation No. 4 asked that the legislation would specify how it is envisaged that technological universities would benefit from the transformed research and innovation system. I was recently in ArcLabs, which Deputy Cullinane referenced, to meet Dr. Eugene Crehan. From ArcLabs, you can look across to the Walton Institute for Information and Communication Systems Science, where Dr. Kilbane is doing outstanding work in the field of quantum networks. You can also see down to where Mr. Mike Walsh is doing the mixed swards for the land sciences and seeing how farmers can reduce their input costs and farm in a more environmentally friendly way. You can also see across to where Professor John Nolan has Nutrition Research Centre Ireland, which is housing a macular pigment research group. That is important work. Behind that is the National Biodiversity Data Centre of Dr. Liam Lysaght and all the excellent work being done there. That is a snapshot of just one campus and its research environment.

Truth be told, the Waterford Institute of Technology, WIT, had to dress itself up as a university for the south east for a long time in order to fill the gap being left by the fact there was no formal university in the south east until the recognition of SETU. If we are serious about the technological university sector, we must ensure those universities are adequately represented in this legislation and ensure they have a line of sight for how they are to engage in the level of research we would like them to be involved in. I recently raised at committee with the senior Minister the need for the professorial contract to be put in place at the technological university level. That is vitally important.

Recommendation No. 6 is also interesting. It was adopted in part during the preparation of this legislation.

Recommendation No. 15, which is about academic freedom, has been adopted more fully. It restricts the role of the Minister in directing research. This goes back to what I was talking about with respect to the humanities, applied research and non-applied research. It is not always appropriate for research to be directed at a particular output and there should not be a role for political interference in the direction the research takes. I was glad to see those recommendations taken on board.

I could go on for an awful lot longer. Recommendation No. 7 related to the use of this funding for balanced regional development, which again goes back to what I was talking about with respect to research and development in Waterford. I am sure many Deputies will talk about research and innovation in their own areas but it is very important that the recommendation has been adopted in full and that as we set up Taighde Éireann, it has a view to the fact that research and innovation can play an important role in balanced regional development.

I could not let it pass without referencing the two recommendations that deal with the sustainable development goals. I accept the Minister's rationale that you should not necessarily build into legislation that is intended to stand the test of time reference to something that has 2030 as its timeline for completion. However, we should be talking about the integration of sustainable development and sustainable development education at every available opportunity, just as we are doing with the climate challenge because it is important that we reflect in our research and innovation those things to which we are committed in terms of development, not just here but also abroad.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill. Failed Government policies have left universities in Cork with no capacity for innovation and research beyond what they already have. UCC and Munster Technological University, MTU, do unbelievable work in research and development. At a time when we should be funding them to do more and creating more capacity, the Government has not invested enough in them.

Students cannot think beyond next week because they are worried about accommodation, the cost of living and their plans for the future. Many of them plan to emigrate as soon as they graduate. When we look around the world, there is no doubt that we can see significant research undertaken in other countries by Irish graduates - people living all over the world who are doing fabulous work but would have loved to have stayed at home. Government policy left them with no other choice. The crisis in housing has forced many to leave our shores. Instead of attracting top academics, this Government is exporting them.

Alongside this, secondary school students in my constituency have to travel across the city to attend either of the university campuses. The reason is that there is no campus on the north side of the city. It is very disappointing because I have met with UCC and MTU a number of times and raised the issue of having a north side campus, be it for research and development, apprenticeships or medicine. There is a great saying "If you can't see it, you can't be it", which is why it is vital we see a north side campus either for UCC or MTU, or both. We want our students to reach their full potential. North side students lose out at the first hurdle when it comes to accessing third-level education as easily as possible. The links between schools and universities are not strong enough. A campus on the north side would build a stronger link. Delivering that needs to be a priority for the Minister.

A constituent contacted me about his citizen science project. He applied for funding and was rejected. I asked a number of parliamentary questions to find out where he could find funding or how he could go about improving the likelihood of his project accessing funding and I got no real answer. I could see the merit in his ideas but many people give up at this stage. Will the Minister consider a mentorship research programme for innovation to help people to get funding and find out where to go for funding, as is the case with local enterprise offices? I ask the Minister to seriously consider a campus for the north side of Cork and a mentoring programme for research and innovation.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome this Bill. Research and innovation constitute one of the key aspects of developing a prosperous economy and future. The new agency bringing together two existing agencies and, hopefully, funding them properly and ensuring they have the correct focus is vital.

Many people across the country in third-level education are finding it very difficult, particularly those in PhD courses, who find it very hard to manage. The level of funding available is a significant issue, particularly in research. That was mentioned by other Deputies earlier. There is significant opportunity in this country to build a diverse economy because we have a richness of talent in our third-level sector. In order to be able to do that, it requires an adequate level of funding and resources. This Bill goes a certain distance but we need to ensure this level of funding is in place, particularly for the regions. I know the Atlantic Technological University in my region is always looking for more opportunities and is co-operating and networking with other agencies in various areas to develop and build strength to ensure people can have that opportunity. Very often, they do not have that opportunity and feel very neglected and left behind. I have spoken to many of them with regard to this.

I hope the Minister will recognise that putting legislation in place is not enough. We need to see outcomes and those can only be measured when we have the success people can see in front of them. For many, this is not happening because much of the research and innovation is developed elsewhere. This is one of the key issues. We need to see the development side of this happening in the regions. We produce all these graduates who are very well-educated but there are no jobs for graduates in many areas of the country, particularly in the north west.

Another key issue I come across regularly is accommodation for students. The housing crisis affects every aspect of our society, particularly as regards students. The absence of student accommodation and the difficulties with it in many areas have caused real angst among much of our student population. Last year, a housing estate in Sligo was set up for student accommodation. It got planning permission but then was used to house people from Ukraine. That is fine but it should not involve pushing out people who need accommodation when they are students. That is one of the key things we must ensure does not happen in future. We must have adequate accommodation and funding for our student population so that when people go into research and development, they feel they are properly financed throughout that period and the research they do is properly financed because many of our universities are falling behind on that internationally and nationally. While we welcome this legislation, it must be backed up by proper investment.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on Second Stage of the Research and Innovation Bill 2023 and will support its progress today. The establishment of the new agency is a key action included in Impact 2030: Ireland’s Research and Innovation Strategy and will serve as the foundation for achieving many of the strategy’s goals. The agency will help build the capacity we need for research and innovation excellence into the future. This is essential in order to ensure that Ireland has a resilient and agile research base that can make a substantive impact on national challenges and opportunities. It will also play an important role in underpinning evidence for policy and supporting Government Departments. The Bill, alongside other recent legislative and policy changes and the ongoing progress of the higher education and research system, may provide us with a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the higher education and research system to be flexible, balanced and capable of meeting national needs now and into the future.

I will address three principal themes today, namely, the composition of the board of the new agency, the need for support in developing a world-class researcher career framework and fundamental research, and the need for sufficient investment.

Regarding the composition of the board, it is very much about striking the balance. Conflict of interest is also a significant issue in that we cannot have a scenario in which people on the board have vested interests in how the funding is allocated to the sector. That is the balance to be struck. A lot is happening in Ireland in this area. We have to look holistically at the make-up of the board and we need to get a balance between national and international, corporate governance and research expertise. We need to look at the competences we need and consider a council structure within it. Having councils to advise the board and embedded within the system is something every State agency should be doing. Each should consult, on an ongoing basis and in a structured way, the community it serves.

A consistently excellent research environment and culture supported by the appropriate infrastructure is necessary to the success of the new agency. The new agency will have a crucial role to play in developing a world-class researcher career framework that will both attract and retain talent in Ireland.

The agency will work with the university, enterprise and public sectors. However, those who are actively involved in research will tell of a disjointed system in which the pay and conditions of researchers are not stable across the sector. This is an important tenet within the Bill, as those researchers, who oftentimes are carrying out PhD programmes within institutions and who can analyse the trends within our society, are themselves subject to these insecure conditions such as insecure and temporary contracts. This is something I have raised before for the public sector, especially for teachers and academic tutors. A lack of recognition of employee status deeply disadvantages them not solely when undertaking their PhDs but in years to come. A five-year period in which no PRSI contributions are made, and when relevant employment protections and rights such as maternity leave, parental leave or sick leave are denied, can lead to long-term disadvantages, not just in gaps in pension contributions but also gaps in access to other social supports. It is not only about pay, conditions and security around contracts at all stages of the research ladder and all stages of the teaching ladder. This is an opportunity to show that the Government understands the importance of proper security. Lack of security is how we lose out on frontier research and new thinking.

In a similar way, we need to encourage more students to look at career pathways that incorporate some or all of the science subjects. If we look at the OECD rankings for research and development, and at our per capita expenditure, Ireland makes half of the investment that is made in countries like Sweden, Austria and Switzerland. If we do not increase investment in research and innovation towards the strategic target of 2.5% of the domestic economy as outlined in Impact 2030, we will leave ourselves fundamentally unprepared for the digital and green transitions we must deal with in the coming two decades. We have to build on the success of the past 20 years and invest at scale in partnership with enterprise, the public service and civil society if we are to translate all of that research into tangible economic, social and environmental benefits. These outcomes are society-wide deliverables, and we need to work together. Ireland’s Government budget allocation for research and development should reach or perhaps exceed the EU average with the majority being allocated to fundamental research.

The Bill has been broadly welcomed across the sector. In this country we know the importance of research and innovation. A consistently excellent research environment and culture supported by the appropriate infrastructure is necessary to the success of the new agency. We now have new players within our tertiary education system, namely, the technological universities. However, they are curtailed in their participation in research due to the contracts the lecturers are operating under. It is a chance to get a stand-alone piece of research legislation right. The proposed Bill, alongside other recent legislative and policy changes and the ongoing progress of the higher education and research system, may provide us with a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the higher education and research system to be flexible, balanced, and capable of meeting national needs now and into the future.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I welcome that this Bill has been brought forward to Second Stage. As a former lecturer in what is now ATU but formerly was GMIT, in Galway, it is important that we all support this Bill to make sure the opportunities are there for our young people in innovation and research, and that we provide opportunities for companies and small businesses in order that they can get supports to carry out research themselves. I had the honour last week to give a keynote address at the International Congress on Architectural Technology, ICAT, international conference in ATU Galway on the subject of innovation and technology in the construction industry. There were architectural technologists from Europe as well as Ireland at the conference. It was an example of how well we have come forward, and of the reputation we have built, for innovation in every sector. The construction industry is just one of those sectors crying out for more innovation and research and for more young people to be engaged in how we can find techniques that meet our environmental challenges and our demand for top-quality buildings, construction and infrastructure.

In 2015, it was first announced that the former GMIT, now part of ATU, was to get a STEM building. It is now 2024 and it still has not been built. It is still not there. I understand it is in a bundle of contracts. My message is that if we are really serious about delivering top-class education, we need to have top-class facilities. In fairness, we are delivering it right across the country but a lot of the colleges and universities in which it is being delivered were built back in the early seventies. The classroom I taught in was the same classroom I was educated in back in 1975. Nothing changed in it other than it got new paint. We have to move with the times and make sure we are investing - not spending - in the infrastructure required to deliver top-class modern facilities in order to have top-class modern, innovative thinking students coming out. We owe it to the teaching staff and management in these facilities as well. It is great to have this Bill, and all of this going on. We have plenty of examples of great work that has been done. We are blessed with fantastic staff and management in all of our universities, be they technical or any other type. What we need is more purpose and intent by the State to deliver the infrastructure we promise, rather than just making announcements and letting it sail into the wind until somebody maybe catches it ten or 15 years later. It is not good enough. We should be looking at how we can best deliver, as quickly as possible, the infrastructure that is needed by using the innovation and technology we have in our grasp, rather than clutching to old ideas and processes.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Bill and it fits in with all of the new developments taking place at third level. There are technological universities now in various regions to ensure that so many now have access to education. This will further enhance our profile abroad. It will show the world and the international markets that we are concentrating on research and innovation. It is about being at the cusp of all developments relative to the new green technology, and all of the other challenges that face small businesses and the multinationals here, which can be resolved by research. The future of our employment rests on that, and so, therefore, does the success of our economy. When you examine that you find you will need all of the skills and resources universities can produce. I would like to see the new entity be lightweight, and able to manoeuvre and change at a rapid pace because that is the way the world has gone. That is the way technology has gone. If we do not prepare ourselves to be to the fore of the changes necessary in this ever-changing world, then we will fast lose our place. It will be important, in the context of research and development, that we are able to commercialise ideas quickly, to put State money behind the initial steps and then be able to export those ideas. Enterprise Ireland, the IDA and other existing agencies contribute in no small way to research and development. However, communities also want to participate.

I was disappointed with the outcome of the setup of the South East Technological University in that in all of our discussions leading up to its establishment it was agreed that Kilkenny would have a campus. Kilkenny city and county and the region are recognised as having an association with research and development, and an association with design. We were promised a campus but in the yearly report from the president there was no mention of it. In fact, there was no mention made of Kilkenny. Having supported the establishment of the South East Technical University, I am disappointed. I would ask that the Minister, who has been very proactive in the development of this area and in funding all the initiatives, would take a particular interest in the fact that it would appear that Kilkenny is being short-changed. Those who now manage the development of that university are not interested in the likes of Kilkenny and that does not sit well with me.

I also put forward the idea of a centre of education, a centre of study, a centre of research into Norman history and its connection to Ireland and Ireland's development from that stage in our history onwards. That could have included a Norman museum. It is not too late to establish such a facility. I believe the Minister should be asked to do that in the context not just of this Bill, but in the context of the university as well.

An agency like this needs to be light and needs to be able to turn and twist with the times. In Kilkenny city, SOLAS and the ETB are to provide a centre of excellence for apprentices. That seems to be held up by more bureaucratic nonsense and delays in the purchase of the appropriate site. Sites like this do not come easy and do not come often. A site has been identified by the ETB and I presume by SOLAS. I encourage the Minister to find out the reason for the delay in the delivery of the site. He should insist that the deal, which has been spoken about and agreed, be implemented immediately. I am aware that SOLAS has dragged its feet in this area and that the date to close the deal set by the ETB has not been met by the parties concerned. I would not like to see the same inefficiency and lack of passion about the project emerging in a new organisation like this. It is important for the Minister to leave his mark on this legislation not just by introducing it but by insisting that there be efficiency, value for money for the taxpayer and definite outcomes in terms of tangible jobs to be delivered in the context of research on development.

We are very happy to see Tirlán in Kilkenny and I watch with great interest its research and development activities on food and a new approach to dairy products and so on. One could only be impressed. In that research and development, and that company, we see a very positive place in our economy and in international markets for the coming years, thereby securing the jobs that are absolutely necessary.

We should not forget the SMEs. Significant work needs to be done to fund the type of research and development necessary to ensure their success. Successful SMEs are those that are gearing themselves towards that success. They need to be supported tangibly financially. They need to be worked into the system into Enterprise Ireland, into the export market, thereby securing not just the profile of the area they come from but also jobs etc. I welcome the Bill and I ask the Minister to address the few questions I put to him.

Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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The Bill provides for the merger of the existing Science Foundation Ireland and the Irish Research Council. The two agencies in their current form have similar roles for different arms of research, with the former providing for research based on STEM subjects and the latter aimed at more humanities-based subjects. I see no problem with this as long as the intentions that are promoted by the Department are maintained and carried through and that a path is plotted to ensure parity of esteem between academic disciplines, forms of research and researchers themselves. This general approach is also adopted and catering for PhD students who are so important in research and development.

In the past I worked with a PhD student who wanted to transition from her job into research. The constituent, a single mother, encountered such a lack of support that she had to go without to succeed in pursuing her studies. That was a couple of years ago and now rental costs, including the exclusion of PhD students from the student renters tax credit, are among the challenges they face which will impact on our ability to develop the sector in new ways that we want. Ambitions for research, for development and for an increase in the number of patents developed in this country are impeded by factors such as this. I urge the Minister to address this.

Precarious employment is also affecting the sector’s ability to be all that it can. The Minister will be aware that the Irish Federation of University Teachers pointed out this trend in its report on the matter and how this is driving people out of academia. Employment conditions, housing and rental are all issues that are posing problems across the employment sector. Nursing and the Garda are seeing this. Our Defence Forces have traditionally fallen foul of this. Academia is no different nor is it immune from the same pressure.

These problems are at the core of the obstacles people encounter in trying to progress their lives, to hold down employment, or to work as effectively as possible. As a consequence, the ability to deliver the results we need to become a hub for research and innovation is dependent upon the conditions workers encounter. The Minister needs to continue to push for a whole-of-government approach to this.

I recognise the progress that has been made to develop our third level sector on a regional basis, which is very welcome. However, high housing and rental costs are pervading every region. Coupled with a prevalence of precarious employment, the challenge encountered by students is considerable. The foundations upon which we build our innovative prospects are dependent upon this being addressed.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
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I welcome the Bill. There is a lot done in the Bill and a lot more to do. Not everyone goes to third level education. It is great to see that even in this House I myself never got to third level education but it did not stop me from talking or representing people. No matter what education someone has, it is good and I believe it has brought a lot of common sense to this Dáil.

I am glad the Minister has introduced many of the points I have brought up relating to apprenticeship models through different sectors and in colleges throughout the country to provide an opportunity to rebuild our workforce in electronics and other trades. It is great to see that there is investment in the apprenticeship model as we had lost ten years of it when the Celtic tiger went bang.

From the point of view of providing equal opportunity for education, accommodation has to come into play. We need more investment in accommodation close to our colleges for people who do not have the transport network to get them there. Some people in our parishes, towns and villages need to get two or three different bus services to get to college. It would be great if they were given an opportunity for accommodation close to college rather than commuting for an hour and a half or two hours to get to college. It would be absolutely fantastic.

If you have an equal educational opportunity to go to college, it feeds into an equal job opportunity. For equal job opportunities, it would be great to see more investment in infrastructure outside of the cities and in large towns and areas where it would future-proof the growth of our fantastic next generation of entrepreneurs. In whatever sector they wish to go to, they should have an equal opportunity for employment in the area they live. Infrastructure is key. From an early age, for children going to primary school, through secondary school and then third level education, it is all down to equal opportunity. Whether you live in a city or the country, you should have equal opportunity to go to both places.

I welcome what is in this for the future of our next generations and I welcome all sectors of the education they will get, regardless of whether they want to go to third level or not. Education is not for everyone but whatever level people want to get to, the infrastructure should be there to make sure we protect their future.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am glad to get the opportunity to talk about this important Bill. I agree with and welcome much of it. The amalgamation of the science foundation and the Irish Research Council, combining their respective remits, is welcome but I hope there will be more funding for innovation and higher education because our youth today are our future tomorrow and our greatest asset. We must do everything we can to ensure they avail and probe every opportunity to get ahead. Youth change their minds. Even people in here change their mind practically every hour, not to mind every day. Youth being youth, they change their minds and we must give them scope to do that. We must ensure there are jobs and apprenticeship places for them.

I have come across a good few cases where a young fella with so much of the apprentice time given in a trade then needs hours in a college but is told he has to wait nine or ten months until the next year to get a place in the college. That is not right. I ask the Minister of State to ensure that does not continue to happen. It has been happening in my area. In the past year, at least three or four of these people have had to wait nine or ten months to get a place in the college for the trade they are following, because there is no course available to them. It pinched me a lot and I made representations about it but it still happens from time to time and it should not happen.

Jobs and all that are fine but I am not exaggerating when I say an awful lot of young people are leaving our shores, including last week a lovely young fella from Bonane. They were in their last round-up together and went on a bus tour because he is leaving and trying Australia to see if things are any different or better there. I had a select group of people from Clare visit the bar during Christmas. They all had jobs and were 26, 27, 28 or 30, and the eldest was 31 years of age. The problem they had was whatever job they had - teacher, guard or whatever - they could not see a possibility of providing a home for themselves. They had good jobs. The trouble is it is so hard and expensive to provide a home that most of them have decided to emigrate.

More than a third of the cost of a house goes on taxes and levies. The other thing as far as Kerry and the Killarney area is concerned is you cannot get planning permission, even if you were prepared to go to the extreme and extravagant cost of buying or building a house.

That is the most serious thing. We must address those issues. I am not scaremongering but we have lost an awful lot of our youth from Gneevgullia, Rathmore, Scartaglin, Killarney, Fossa, Kenmare, Bonane and all around us. Lads of 25, 26 and 27 years of age cannot see a way to provide a home for themselves like the people who came before them. I ask the Minister of State to be cognisant of that and to do something about it.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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One of the main aims of the Bill is to encourage the contribution of research and innovation to the economic, social, cultural and environmental development and sustainability of Ireland and to strengthen the engagement of the research and innovation system with the Government, public bodies, enterprise, non-governmental organisations and cultural institutions. We all welcome that.

I want to speak about County Kerry. I warmly welcome the investment made in the past and present in our university in Tralee. Having that educational facility in Tralee is of massive importance because it gives our young people the education they need in our county. Of course it is hard to get housing but however hard and expensive it is, it is nearer in your own county than if you were travelling to another county. There is massive capital investment going on there at the moment. The Minister was there recently for an event with regard to construction. I congratulate the main contractors and the workmen on the ground daily. They are there today in the rain. I thank them for the excellent, good, sound work they are doing. That will be a place of education for our youngsters for many years to come.

While we are talking about innovation and skills, I want to talk about how difficult it is today to get other skilled people such as plumbers, electricians, plasterers, bricklayers and carpenters. We are not doing enough to teach young people those skills. My goodness, if you had training in any of those skills and could say you were a qualified carpenter, electrician, plumber, plasterer or bricklayer and had practical experience, you would be set up for life. You will never meet a plumber or electrician who will see a hungry day. If you can plaster a house - which is very difficult with plastering over your head, hardwalling and all of that - or are a carpenter, you will never see a hungry day. It is great to have titles behind your name, to graduate with diplomas and so on. I respect that very much and, as a person who never sat for a leaving certificate, I have all the more admiration for people who get a good education and I look up to those people.

I also have nothing but the highest regard for the people who have a pair of hands hanging out of them and good engagement inside their heads, because you need the brain to drive the hands. What we should be doing in our schools is reminding young people that what we will call the higher education side of things is great, but it is not necessarily for everybody. We should be encouraging young boys and girls to see other ways of having a trade or profession, something that will stand to them forever. We should be teaching them those skills from a very early age.

We had it in the vocational schools long ago but there are other skills, for example, in hospitality. While some places might be getting bad press at the moment, we must always remember that the tourism capital of the Western world is a town called Killarney in County Kerry. We are better at tourism than anywhere else in the world, and we do not boast about it either. What I would say about the tourism capital of the world is that what we need in County Kerry is people who are qualified as chefs, qualified in all the different types of bartending or qualified in running hotels, guesthouses and our lovely bars and other places of hospitality. We need people to be trained and upskilled in those areas, which is very important.

When talking about education, we should be looking at all of those spheres of education. There is the person who is very brainy and advanced, who wants to go on and have degree upon degree, and will do very well and, hopefully, make a good living for himself or herself. Of course, we want to encourage people. However, I always say that there is an awful difference between a young person saying they want to go away to Australia or to America or England, and saying they have to go because there is nothing here for them. That is wrong. What we want to do is keep those lovely young people here if they want to stay here. We want to have them educated, upskilled and ready for work here and we want to ensure there is work for them and, of course, that they can afford to live here.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I do not know how to follow that tour of the Ring of Kerry and the capital of hospitality in Killarney. Déanfaidh mé mo dhícheall. I was here for the Minister's speech. I welcome the legislation. I welcome the fact that research, innovation and science will be upgraded and amalgamated and that we will have a new, hopefully fit-for-purpose, dynamic, modern, outward-looking and all-encompassing agency that will stimulate and bring out the best in our young people. It will also have young people educated in many skills and areas, and entrepreneurs and investors from abroad will say they want to come here. With the roll-out of universities to rural areas, including the campus in Clonmel, which is under the Limerick campus, I want to remember the VEC of decades ago and, in particular, John Slattery, Luke Murtagh in north Tipperary and others who were visionaries. They got the campuses going in Clonmel and Thurles as TRBDI, which has evolved into a university campus. We welcome that in Clonmel and we also welcome the investment. It makes it easier on families, especially with the housing crisis, the cost of renting and the lack of rural transport, given that many people can do courses in their home towns and home areas in rural Ireland.

We need to recalibrate the system. The late Liam Simpson was a visionary in Tipperary and a member of Macra na Feirme and Macra na Tuaithe. He was a great friend of mine and múinteoir iontach a bhí ann. He often called me in to say that we have to get back to the trades. He started off with domestic science and bringing the young farmers to the VEC school in Cahir. He got people educated and got them into different farming courses, but also a wide range of other trades. We have to go back to the trades. I am glad that we have the Archerstown centre in Thurles under the auspices of Tipperary ETB. I have been there a number of times and it is fabulous to see it. It is what we need. It is a training centre for catering and for dressing and making beds and preparing rooms, right along to chefs and management - from driving a bulldozer to operating a van, and everything in between. It is an amazing complex, with plumbers, electricians and all the different trades.

It is great to see females involved in some of those trades now because the country is crying out for them. I saw recently that the Construction Industry Federation has stated that we could ramp up housing to 50,000 units a year from the projected 33,000 but the problem is the skills. I am talking about skills for the man on the shovel but also blocklayers, as referenced by Deputy O’Donoghue, plasterers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, roofers and so on. There is also training with regard to electronic components.

Some trainees are with a great company that makes steel frame houses, which is based in Cahir but is from the constituency of the Minister of State at Kilbehenny. It is very successful but it took nearly three years of fighting to get the ISO brand in Ireland whereas it got it in England in six months. There is too much red tape here with regard to these issues. We have young people with the vision, passion and courage to make investments, although, as Deputies Danny and Michael Healy-Rae said, they might not have third level or even second level education. They are great people but they cannot be smothered with red tape.

The Minister of State is proclaiming about how great the Government is with the minimum wage increase, the sick pay increase to five days for employers, with five extra days for domestic violence issues and the extra bank holidays. It is all patent nonsense because it is killing employers. As an employer myself, I know it full well. Most employers want to look after their workers and they do, and there is a good relationship, but there are all of these regulations and panels of people going around with folders, enforcing this and enforcing that. We have become a bloody battalion of enforcers going around with stuff under their oxters, telling people what they cannot do, instead of being out there to support people, especially given the crisis that we have - ag cabhrú agus ag tabhairt aire dóibh. I mean that in terms of Revenue and everyone else. Revenue has gone very aggressive about taxes for waiters. We are at a very volatile stage in our economy and many businesses are closing gach lá and are under severe pressure. We need our agencies . I hope this new agency will have the spirit and vision, but will also encourage employers who are struggling so they will be able to innovate, take up new technologies and so on. We must cut off the heavy hand of the law because the weight of bureaucracy on people is enormous.

As I said, I am not anti-minimum wage but everybody in positions now wants a retrospective increase as well. Therefore, there are knock-on issues. There are also bank holidays, with an extra one coming up, Lá Fhéile Bríde. I love St. Brigid’s Day but it did not need a bank holiday because extra bank holidays put more pressure on existing companies, big and small, but especially the small.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I need the assistance of the House. We are coming towards the end of the first round and we now have a Government slot, with Deputy Higgins, and a Sinn Féin slot, with Deputy Ó Murchú. There are no speakers from the Independent Group but we have Deputies Boyd Barrett, Bruton and Murnane O'Connor. We will follow the schedule and I will then come back and take the Government speakers and Deputy Boyd Barrett in the second round, and then go to the Minister of State. We must wrap up by 4.45 p.m. Is that agreed? Agreed. I call Deputy Higgins.

Emer Higgins (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Research and Innovation Bill and what it represents for the future of Ireland, and I commend the Minister, Deputy Harris, for introducing it. Ireland has always been a land of research, of innovation and of scholars. This Bill is about bringing those values to the fore. Taighde Éireann will be an amalgamation of the Irish Research Council and Science Foundation Ireland and it is set to streamline and promote excellence in research to ensure our intellectual achievements contribute to Ireland's economic, social, cultural and environmental development. Through this Bill, arts, humanities and social science research will, for the first time ever, be put on a statutory footing. This means we are enshrining into law our commitment to research, innovation and science. I have to agree with the Minister, Deputy Harris, that this Bill will support the next generation of innovation in Ireland and create a more collaborative and diverse research and innovation system that can leverage resources to tackle key challenges, like our health and climate crises.

My concern, however, is that the current language in the heads of the Bill does not go far enough to underscore the vital role that fundamental research plays in the Irish system.

This requires dedicated resources across all career stages and all disciplines. I appreciate that the legislation needs to be future-proofed and if it is too specific, it could become outdated. I strongly feel that without covering all forms of research across all career stages and disciplines that we may miss an opportunity to enshrine into law not only applied research but also fundamental research. Fundamental research examines data to find the unknown and to fulfil a sense of curiosity. It typically has no intended use beyond furthering our knowledge of a subject and, therefore, it can often be overlooked. However, the general consensus is that applied research can only come off the back of years and years of fundamental research. The most popular example often cited of this is George Boole, the mathematician from County Cork who studied algebra and created Boolian logic, which decades later underpins computing. It is the 1s and 0s of computer programming, the ABC of computer language. It was possible only because George Boole had the opportunity to go down a rabbit hole of research. We need to make sure that falling down a rabbit hole of research remains something we encourage our innovators, our scientists and our thinkers to do because that is where change, transformation and creation is born. Our computer programming was formed on applied research but it was borne out of the fundamental research. It was only when that initial fundamental research was applied into logic that it became the backbone of most of our modern daily lives.

The IRC mainly funds individual research awards, and the vast majority go to early career researchers, for masters, PhD and postdoctoral researchers. Only a few programmes fund more established career stages and the most prominent of them is the laureate awards. The laureate programme is an outcome of the previous Government strategy for research development and innovation, which responded to the community’s outcry for more fundamental research. It was the only programme offering funds for fundamental research in Ireland for a long time.

SFI funds all kinds of awards, individual, projects and big centres. Big centres are where researchers from across Ireland collaborate under a common theme. That is especially predominant in future diary farming, marine biology, neurology. However, if we limit the themes of these centres to applied research we could be missing the very point, the very essence of innovation, by ignoring fundamental research, by not allowing our researchers to follow their theories, their passion and their ideas down their research rabbit hole. Given that 30% of budget for these centres come from industry partners, we are limiting their resources as well as the research.

The heads of Bill and new Government strategy also map out plans for an increase in challenge-based funding, where issues of national importance would be identified, and a funding call would be created to ask researchers for their solutions to the big issues of the day. The best ideas then get funded. That is incredibly important when it comes to tackling the big challenges in our society but it does mean that funding programmes are fixed to the identifiable needs of society, they are limited to the here and now and they are not looking at the fundamentals or future proofing. That is the very essence of research and innovation.

The Bill is all about promoting stronger interactions among the various actors in Ireland’s research and innovation landscape, such as research institutions, higher education, businesses, public authorities, civil society groups and European allies, which is really positive. Ireland in recent years has become a hotbed of innovation. We can see it in our tech sector, our pharma sector and, most recently, our film and creative sector. Taighde Éireann's embodiment of equality, diversity, and inclusion is a beacon of hope and a driver of change. It is fostering equal employment opportunities and connecting researchers with policymakers. This Bill is not just future-proofing Ireland's research landscape; it is future-proofing Ireland itself, if we get it right. We are supporting entrepreneurs, researchers, and ultimately, the nation's progress. I want to also congratulate Professor Philip Nolan for his new role heading Taighde Éireann. Having previously spearheaded significant growth in research and innovation at Maynooth University, Professor Nolan is exceptionally well-equipped to guide Taighde Éireann towards achieving its ambitious goals.

While Taighde Éireann is a pioneering step, it is important to recognise the critical role of fundamental research, that is the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, for the sake of society, and for the sake of the future. I hope the Minister of State will take that on board with this Bill.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Murchú is not with us so we now go to Deputies Bruton and Murnane O’Connor who have seven minutes and are sharing.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I think Deputy Murnane O’Connor is first.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy can go on.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputies are losing time.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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First, I am very uneasy about this legislation. We are proposing to consolidate the two agencies here before conducting the evaluation that I understand the Minister of State is planning, if it is not already under way. To have structural reform before doing the research into evaluating how the present system is working seems the wrong way to do things.

It said in the blurb that it is driven by the challenge of climate and digital transformation in the document Impact 2030 but if that is the case, why not involve Teagasc, the Marine Institute, the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, the EPA and so on? These are the key researchers in those fields of how we are going to drive change. It is not a convincing argument. I struggle to see the rationale. Impact 2030 refers to interdisciplinary endeavour, and that is certainly possible but two agencies do not need to be merged to get that. It does seem that a new Department wants to consolidate for the sake of consolidating. I do not really believe that is wise. One of Ireland’s strengths has been as an innovator as opposed to doing a lot of fundamental research. That is a strength that we should nurture.

Even though Impact 2030 states that helping enterprise, particularly SMEs, start, succeed and transform through innovation is a key objective, this has not been reproduced in either sections 8 or 9 of the legislation, so those are not objectives set out. The only mention of the enterprise agencies is to consult with them, but not work with them which is a very different matter. We have had very close involvement of the enterprise agencies with SFI historically. When it comes to evaluating research proposals, SFI had a tried and tested way where impact on enterprise was a key part of that. The number of partners that were involved in a research project, the money leveraged from the private sector, the spinout of new companies, the placement of people in companies afterwards were key elements of deciding what was valuable research. None of that is mentioned in the Bill. Only one out of the 12 members of the board need to have experience in enterprise or expertise in enterprise. We are not taking the correct approach of valuing what has been so important to our research and what SFI nurtured. Sometimes by joining things together we get less than the sum of the parts and I worry that is the case here.

I welcome funding partnership but no policies or principles have been set out in the section as to the nature of these funding partnerships. That could be a valuable way of doing the approach that we have had.

Finally, there is a tendency in the higher education world to see getting bigger research budgets as a mark of status but that does not necessarily mean that they are contributing to the advancement either of the economy or society. There needs to be a very strong enterprise element in the make-up of this board so that it is ensured that the Government delivers the sort of relevance that is so important in a small country like ours, a small trading economy that has to be nimble and quick to adapt and adopt innovation.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Carlow is a leader in research and innovation since the scientist John Tyndall first asked if the sky was blue. He was a great Carlow man. I always bring him up in the House. We witnessed the success of students from Tyndall College, Tullow Community School and St. Leo’s at the BT Young Scientist & Technology Exhibition just this month. We in Carlow are punching way above our weight in science. I welcome that Carlow’s South East Technological University, SETU, which has campuses in Carlow, Waterford and Wexford, is receiving €460,000 under the new distributed campus support fund.

I know how committed the Minister of State is to Carlow and to the development of all our educational needs. SETU Carlow has made an important change that will be central to addressing regional challenges, especially those relating to the green and digital transitions. The expansion of campuses and facilities and the development of new courses in areas of regional need deepen international partnerships and greatly enhances what SETU is doing in research and innovation. This is all in support of the development of the south east and that is so important. That is why I support this Bill.

Ireland's collective research and innovation investment in activities need to make as big a difference as possible to as many people as possible. We must maintain our excellence in the standard and quality of research and innovation undertaken. We must support the undertaking of research and innovation in all fields of activity and in all disciplines by researchers with different levels of knowledge, experience and specialist skills in such fields. I would go further and say that we have to look at ways of eliminating all financial barriers to those who seek to rise in STEM, activities across the country. That is the only way we will achieve the goal of this Bill and advance the principles of equality, diversity and inclusion with regard to opportunities to undertake research and innovation and in the undertaking of that research.

It is important we have a funding process with international good practice for research, again to promote and support the contribution made by research. It is about social, cultural, and environmental development and sustainability. We are living in a different age. Things are changing. The climate is a huge factor as well so there are a lot of obstacles there. I know we are very lucky in Carlow to be a university town but we also have Carlow College, St. Patrick's, which will also play a huge role in this. Previous speakers spoke about skills. Not everyone will want to go to college but they will all have their own skills and what they believe they are absolutely excellent at. Previous speakers mentioned chefs, plumbers, blocklayers and so on who are just as important. This Bill is really good and I really welcome it. SETU Carlow will be a game-changer for us.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The next speaker is Deputy Boyd Barrett who will have ten minutes. Deputy Ó Murchú will then have three minutes and we will go to the Minister of State to wrap it up.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute on the Bill. I want to express a little scepticism. I am open to the debate but a change of name for Science Foundation Ireland and the Irish Research Council and simply amalgamating them does not mean anything in and of itself in advancing our support for research and innovation. Most particularly, if it does not address the issue of core funding. As I understand it, Ireland is near the bottom of the EU league table when it comes to research and innovation funding. According to the figures available to me, Ireland spends 0.96% of GDP on research and innovation, putting us in the bottom half of the EU. That compares with an EU average of 2.23%, which is more than twice what we spend. If we compare Ireland with best practice in Europe, Belgium, Sweden, Austria, Germany, Finland and others spend 3% of GDP or more. Ireland is way behind in the amount we invest in research and innovation.

I am not sure if those figures include the big tax breaks of €700 million or €800 million per year that are given by the Department of Finance and that mostly go to the big multinationals, which is in and of itself an issue. That is a huge amount going to big corporations for research and innovation when not enough is going to universities, education institutions and, critically, to the actual researchers themselves.

As well as Ireland being a poor performer in the provision of core funding to our researchers, they are plagued by very poor stipends when they are doing their PhDs. I acknowledge the Government, under pressure from groups such as the Postgraduate Workers Organisation, has improved that somewhat. It is still far short of what the researchers hoped for. If they are in receipt of stipends from SFI or the IRC, it goes up to €22,000 per year, which is far less than in many of the countries I mentioned earlier. The stipends in those countries can be €30,000, €40,000 or €50,000 per year so the researchers make a decent living. Some 70% of those doing postgraduate courses do not get SFI or IRC stipends; they get far less. A lot of our people who are doing postgraduate courses and research are living in poverty and deep precarity. I do not see how that tallies with a serious commitment to advance research and innovation if the people who actually do it are living in poverty.

I am sorry that Deputy Michael Healy-Rae has left the Chamber but he referred to people who had not gone to university or college but just had a pair of arms and a pair of hands hanging out of their body. He was absolutely right because the most serious anthropological study of how human beings became human beings and became the most advanced species was related to precisely that fact. When we stood up, it freed up our hands and the manual dexterity and use of the thumb and our hands in particular that allowed-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Darwin would be proud of the Deputy.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Darwin, indeed, as would Friedrich Engels. It might be worth noting thatDas Kapitalwas dedicated to Darwin, which is something people do not know-----

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Ceann Comhairle did not expect the Deputy to come back to him with that.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----that Karl Marx's greatest work was dedicated to Darwin. Engels pointed out in his fantastic pamphlet, The Part Played by Labour in the Transition from Ape to Man-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know whether they have much to do with the subject matter of the debate.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It has a lot to do with it. Manual dexterity was actually the thing that created a dynamic interaction between the growth of the human brain so it was able to do things that no other species can do. That is the essence of research and innovation. If we boil that down to the issue of the poverty of our researchers, they cannot do very good research if they do not have a secure roof over their heads. If a researcher is literally hungry and living in poverty, it does not actually contribute to the advancement of those skills we uniquely have as a species to think about things that do not exist, to go down rabbit holes, to do blue sky research and to imagine different possibilities and futures. That is what is unique to human beings.

Critically, in that regard I want to emphasise that the question of arts and humanities and research in those areas has to be considered as equally important to what are narrowly considered the sciences. I have concerns in this area because the two go together. That is essentially what I am trying to argue here. It is often arts and the humanities and what would not often appear to have an immediate practical or commercial purpose and those slightly more blue sky imaginings or research that lead us to big scientific breakthroughs. The artistic imagination of human beings, which is unique to us, leads us on to practical breakthroughs and scientific discoveries and innovations that literally change the world in with we live and begin to change us in the process. That has been the dynamic dialectic of human evolution and history. It is very important we recognise that.

If things are too narrowly focused on what we imagine to be our immediate practical interests - it is not that they are not important - and we do not give equal opportunity to the human imagination in terms of research, innovation, study, investigation and so on, we will be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

In that regard, I have concerns about the centralisation of power in the hands of the Minister in terms of the appointment of the board members, and the fact that the only person that is specified as having to be on the board is somebody who "shall have experience and expertise relating to enterprise and shall be nominated for such appointment by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment". I accept that we need people who have expertise in enterprise. There is nothing wrong with that, but what about the researchers and the representatives of the staff and employees? Why are they not on the board? Why is that not fixed? Why is all the rest of it in the hands of the Minister who can direct this new body to do pretty much anything he wants? To my mind, that is of concern. We need input from the researchers, the people who may be specialists in particular areas, the staff and so on. It is interesting and slightly concerning that the only one who is specifically singled out as having to be there is the person with experience and expertise in enterprise. Of course, that leads into a more general concern that we end up with a sort of focus on blue chip research rather than blue sky research. In other words, it is about commercial objectives and what suits industry. It is not that these things are unimportant but that everything becomes focused on that rather than perhaps on what is good for science, culture, society and so on. I want to express those concerns and also my concern about the centralisation of power in the hands of the Minister rather than involving more stakeholders.

Critically, to go back where I started, we need far more to be invested in the first place, and it should not be narrowly focused. If it becomes too narrowly focused, it could come at the expense of other important areas of research, not just science in the very narrow sense or maths or whatever, but all the other areas, such as arts and humanities, which are critical for the advancement of the human species and human society.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Nobody has any difficulty with the IRC and SFI coming together and there being a single body for research and research funding. There is a logic to that. As many previous speakers stated, none of this really matters unless funding is put in place for research.

Previous speakers also gave voice to the difficulties PhD students experience when their stipends do not cover their costs. At the lower end of the scale, issues arise with low-paid employment in research. Beyond that, there is the accommodation crisis across the board, which undoubtedly has a huge impact in this particular sphere. As such, an awful lot of stuff has to be righted.

It goes without saying that this State has had certain advantages in regard to the pharma and tech sectors. We are all somewhat worried about the news of 2,500 job losses at PayPal, which amounts to 9% of its total workforce. We had the news of a number of redundancies in Dundalk and Dublin last March. I think it was around 62 at the time and then we had the closure of the company's complexes in Dundalk and Dublin and remote working. I spoke to the Minister earlier. I would like to think the Government will follow up on what exactly this will entail for those workers in Ireland. We must find out as soon as possible. We must ensure they are made aware of what is happening and that whatever supports are necessary will be provided. That is something that needs to be followed up on.

We have huge advantages. It is a case of putting our money where our mouth is in that regard. We have all seen the benefits that have existed. I could talk about DkIT and whatever issues it has had in regard to the TU process. There are very important relationships between DkIT and Maynooth, and we need those to continue as they are beneficial to both parties. We must also ensure the fabulous work done by the Regional Development Centre continues. The centre brings together research and individuals and has led to huge benefits not only in regard to research projects but also thriving companies. It brings together the ETB structure, the Advanced Manufacturing Training Centre of Excellence, Ó Fiaich College and the Drogheda Institute of Further Education. There are also plans for a new regional skills and training centre.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy. We are over time.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We must also focus on the apprenticeship model, put the numerous roadmaps together and ensure the money is there for research.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies who have indicated their support for the Bill and all those who contributed to the Second Stage debate today. I thank them for their considered and useful input.

Research, innovation and the skills and talent that are produced through those processes are central to the social and economic development of our country. The agencies, through their work to date, have ensured that we have a breadth of talent across a multitude of areas. It is those talented individuals who are the key to forging new paths of discovery in the areas of opportunity ahead. The establishment of Taighde Éireann provides us with a unique opportunity to look at these successes, build on them and seek out new opportunities to enhance what has been done to date.

To summarise, this is genuinely landmark legislation to take two already impressive research funding bodies and create something that will be greater than the sum of its parts. On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Harris, and the Department, I pay tribute to all who have served and currently serve on the boards of both of these agencies, and the leadership of the people who have brought us this far. They have contributed massively to the public good. I thank them all for their service and assure them that their legacy will be protected and enhanced by the creation of this new agency.

I also thank the teams at SFI and the IRC for their exemplary work to date at both national and international levels. I recognise the high-quality research already achieved through the national funding agencies and their programmes. These achievements are a credit to their commitment, drive and dedication, giving Taighde Eireann the strongest possible foundation on which to build.

There is no doubt that the research and innovation system is pivotal to the country's future and our people's prosperity, as a driver of national economic and social sustainability. The effective performance of the research and innovation system is crucial to the realisation of key economic and social objectives. This Bill will enable the new agency to maximise the contributions of research and innovation to social, economic, cultural and environmental development and sustainability and to maintain and enhance the reputation of Irish research and innovation at home and internationally.

I again thank the members of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science who undertook a highly useful pre-legislative scrutiny of the Bill. Many of the recommendations made were very helpful in finalising the provisions in the Bill. An extensive period of stakeholder consultation has informed the development of the Bill. In 2022, the Creating our Future campaign received 18,000 responses from the public. There were several strong and consistent messages, which have informed all subsequent development, including Impact 2030 and the functions of the new agency. My Department has been in ongoing consultation with Science Foundation Ireland, the Irish Research Council and the board of the Higher Education Authority, all of which welcome the establishment of the new agency and are engaging comprehensively and constructively as the work progresses.

Since July 2022, my officials have engaged with the Impact 2030 strategy steering group, comprised of the Departments that account for 95% of public research investment.

This group has provided valuable input into how the new agency will work optimally with the funding agencies of other Departments. Consultation with wider stakeholders is ongoing with particular regard to the research and innovation community. This is being led by the CEO designate of the new agency to seek feedback on the operationalisation of the functions of the new agency and to keep stakeholders informed about progress. Consultations have confirmed that the contributions of both SFI and the IRC are highly valued and respected. This excellent reputation will be carried forward into the new funding agency.

I will reply to some of the issues raised. The issue of funding was raised by a number of Deputies. The recently published Government research and development budget for 2022 to 2023 report found that gross expenditure on research and development stood at about €4.9 billion in 2022, a 77% increase in a decade. Of the €4.9 billion total, business expenditure on research and development accounted for €3.9 billion, about 80% of gross expenditure on research and development. Higher education expenditure on research and development was €808 million. Expenditure on research and development activity performed in the governmental sector stood at €179 million.

Concerning other points raised by Deputies, I agree with the need to act to ensure the development of indigenous research and that our strong national performance is sustained. The new agency is an important tool in achieving that goal. On student accommodation, the Department has a strong programme of work to address deficits. It is a key issue for us. On supports for PhD students and researchers, we will publish our response to the independent report commissioned next month. We assure Deputies there is no diminution of the enterprise mandate in research, as mentioned. Our colleague, the Minister for enterprise, will nominate a member of the board. I assure Deputy Higgins that all kinds of research, including fundamental research, are part of the agency's remit. We assure Deputy Bruton that we considered other agency models in arriving at this proposal. It is intended that enterprise remain an important factor. While only one member is nominated by the Minister for enterprise, this does not mean they will be the only person with an enterprise background on the research board.

Many Deputies referenced apprenticeships. Our apprenticeship action plan aims to deliver an apprenticeship system that is flexible and responsive, providing a strong value proposition for employers and potential apprentices. The plan also seeks to implement an apprenticeship system that will deliver greater balance in the apprentice population, providing a governance and partnership structure which ensures the apprentice voice is embedded in the system and that there are enhanced governance and funding structures, employer supports and clear operational arrangements. We debate that issue regularly and we can see the progress we are making in that regard. Deputy Boyd Barrett is correct that the new agency will need to engage with a wide range of stakeholders. That is envisaged in the Bill. The presence of an enterprise nominee in no way diminishes that.