Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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96. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if he supports Ireland becoming a lead state in promoting a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3395/24]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The Dáil passed a motion before Christmas endorsing the development of a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty and calling on Ireland to join the block of states seeking a negotiating mandate. The Minister has said previously that he is in favour of a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty but what is he doing about it? Is he advocating within Government that Ireland become a lead state promoting the idea of this treaty and does he think it likely that the Government will do this before the next general election? I think the outcome of COP underlines the need to develop such a parallel process.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Our reliance on fossil fuels is incompatible with the Paris Agreement and a low-carbon future. Ireland supports measures that reinforce and advance our transition away from reliance on fossil fuels and while we have not signed the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty, we continue to follow its progress and development.

We are acting domestically and internationally to tackle our reliance on fossil fuels. Following the Fossil Fuel Divestment Act 2018, the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund divested from fossil fuel companies and holds a list of companies in which it will not invest. Ireland has also ended the issuing of new exploration licences for fossil fuels and will manage existing authorisations towards a natural conclusion through expiration, relinquishment, or production.

International collaboration is key to achieving the widespread, transformative change needed to tackle climate change. At COP26, Ireland joined the Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance, BOGA, because of our determination to shift the global relationship with nature from a place of extraction to rehabilitation.

This commitment was demonstrated further at COP27, when Ireland joined the global offshore wind alliance to create a global driving force for the uptake of offshore wind through political mobilisation and the creation of a global community of practice. At COP28 Ireland continued to advocate for the move away from fossil fuels. I participated in a number of BOGA events and attended a high-level dialogue on international co-operation for a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty and attended several other related meetings. I will continue to keep signing the treaty under review, to work with those involved, and to supporting it. I agree with the intent and strategic aims they have in mind, but the delivery of that will require further consideration, which we will do with the proposers of the treaty.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I do not think that was a very clear answer at the end. Does the Minister support a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty? Does he support that or not? If he supports it, is that just something that exists in one part of his mind or is it something he is advocating for within Government as Minister for the environment? His response to COP28 was very poor. He attempted to greenwash the outcome of that to try to pretend we are making progress we are simply not making. It was completely captured by the oil and gas corporations as well. The president of COP28 has gone back to his day job of flogging oil and gas for the UAE state oil company, and the Minister has gone back to his day job of pretending we are making progress we simply are not and lulling people to sleep. That is why we need this fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. It is why 60 environmental activist groups came together before Christmas to call on the Irish Government to take a lead and to publicly endorse it. That is absolutely what we need to do. We need to help develop this parallel process.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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It is a complicated issue. If the conclusion of my last comments reflected that, that is the reality. I have spent a fair bit of time in discussions. I attended in New York last September a special meeting hosted by, I think, Tuvalu and Vanuatu - small island states. The meeting was mainly attended by small island states, including Ireland, and we spent a lot of time discussing how we might progress this treaty. As I said, in COP28 I attended that high level dialogue. I think I was one of very few ministers there. There may have been one or two others, if that. However, it was because we have a real interest in making sure it works. It is complicated. The first questions I was asking were about whether this sits inside or outside the Paris treaty - the UNFCCC. We do not have a written treaty. People ask if we should sign it. In truth, there is nothing to sign at the moment. Simplistic yes and no questions about signing it when you do not have something to sign are not-----

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I did not ask him to sign it.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I know, but others have. This is complicated because there is a real issue. We have more than enough oil, gas and coal to burn this planet, in particular oil and gas. We have to stop exploring for new oil and gas. I was arguing that, not just within COP28, and it was not greenwashing. Yes, it did not go as far as I would like to see, but there was significant progress in tripling renewables, doubling efficiency, and committing to changing the international finance system so we get the $4.5 trillion we need into the clean energy alternative. We will continue to do that at the IEA ministerial in September, where I hope to bring the international discourse towards no new exploration in long-term oil and gas discoveries. That is the way you make progress, by working collaboratively in other institutions like COP, the IEA and elsewhere.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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We are heading for disaster. We are still heading for disaster after COP28. The Minister knows that. In the text are all of these references to low-carbon fuels and carbon capture and storage, which are all premised on this illusion of technology coming to save us that is not coming. That is the oil and gas corporations lulling the world to sleep by saying we will have progress and not to worry, we do not need radical change in our societies and economies which the science says we absolutely do. That is the need for the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. It is for states to come together to say they commit to not having fossil fuels. That then creates a space for movements to build pressure in other states to say they should sign up to that.

When I asked the Taoiseach about this before Christmas, he said he knew nothing about the treaty. I hope the Minister has since discussed it with him, explained what it is about and given his personal support for it. There is no treaty to sign, but that means this is a good space for Ireland to say to the small island states appealing for this that we are committed to this idea, we want to develop this fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty and we want to contribute to it. Ireland should take the lead instead of fudging and saying we are listening and having discussions. We need clarity. We need to say we are in favour of this and then help to shape it.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I am happy to help shape it. Deputy Murphy is absolutely right that the world is in a perilous position when it comes to climate. Stefan Rahmstorf spoke the other day about the interconnected nature of the various tipping points we risk going over if we do not adhere to the Paris climate agreement. Even that is a probability risk we set. We know now it is not a political wishlist. It is a physical limit that we have to keep as our North Star that we have to meet. We should also be careful not to make people despondent, give up hope and think it is absolutely impossible. We are seeing at this time an increase in solar in particular, including in Ireland, and in wind power technologies and others that no one expected to scale. If we can continue the exponential rate of growth, it gives us the prospect of switching to a better alternative that is cleaner, cheaper and more secure. It is not impossible.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Fossil fuels are going up too. That is the problem.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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That has to stop. That has to end. Included in that, going back to the financing issue, and again citing the IEA, because I am particularly involved with it at the moment, we know that by the end of this decade half of the money currently going into fossil fuels has to divest from fossil and go into clean. Those industries have to change. In a similar way, of the $4.5 trillion per annum we know we need early in the next decade, $1.5 trillion of that has to go into the emerging countries that are completely locked out. That is the first climate justice issue we have to focus on, as well as our own needs, because that brings stability and peace and helps reduce forced migration and a whole range of other issues, which are the real challenges of our time. We will work on all that and look at things like the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty and help, it is hoped, to try to evolve that thinking because we need it in a world that is burning. Unless we change course, all of our security is threatened.