Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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94. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if he believes the resources allocated for retrofitting are sufficient given the lengthy waiting lists for the warmer homes scheme and the need to make rapid emissions reductions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3397/24]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The Government has set a target of 120,000 homes to be retrofitted by next year and a target of 500,000 by 2030. In 2022 and 2023, only 10,300 of these were fully State-funded under the warmer homes schemes. More than twice as many applications were received as were carried out. There is currently a waiting list of two to three years. Given the dire climate emergency we are facing, is it not time for a massive increase in fully State-funded retrofitting?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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As the Deputy said, the climate action plan set ambitious targets to retrofit the equivalent of 500,000 homes to a building energy rating of B2 on a cost-optimal basis and the installation of 400,000 heat pumps in existing homes to replace older and less efficient heating systems by the end of this decade.

The national retrofit plan sets out the Government's approach to delivering on these targets. Output is really ramping up under the plan, reaching 27,200 houses in 2022 and 47,950 in 2023. One of the key principles underpinning the retrofit plan is fairness. We need to ensure fairness to all and support a just transition. For that reason, the warmer homes scheme is a key priority in the Government's package of supports for retrofit. The warmer homes scheme delivers a range of energy efficiency measures free of charge to households vulnerable to energy poverty.

Increased awareness of the multiple benefits of retrofit and significant improvements to the upgrades provided under the warmer homes scheme has, as the Deputy said, resulted in increased levels of demand for the scheme. Approximately 24,000 applications were received by the SEAI in 2022 and 2023.

Recent years have seen significant increases in the budget allocations for the scheme. Expenditure on it stood at just under €40 million in 2019, the year before this Government came to office. Last year saw the highest ever spend under the scheme, with almost €158 million, 49% of the overall spend, delivering approximately 5,900 fully funded upgrades for households at risk of energy poverty. The average waiting time from application to completion decreased from 26 months in 2022 to 20 months last year.

In order to help ensure further growth in delivery, the budget for the scheme has been increased to nearly €210 million this year. This includes funding from the European regional development fund. My officials continue to work with the SEAI to maximise and accelerate the output of free energy upgrades provided under the scheme.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I hope the Minister is not saying that waiting times of 20 months are in any way acceptable. These are not just green environmental measures we are talking about. They are a perfect example of environmental measures that improve people's lives, reduce carbon emissions and bring down bills. We are talking about some of the poorest households in the country. I refer to working families on poverty wages who get the working family payment, carers, single parent families, people with disabilities and pensioners whose incomes are low enough to allow them to qualify for the fuel allowance. These are the people who are living in energy poverty right now and who are faced with a choice between heating and eating on a daily basis. They cannot afford to wait almost two years for these energy upgrades. The vast majority of people who get work done under the warmer homes scheme say it is great. It is exactly the sort of environmental measure we need, but we need more funding. What the Minister has outlined is not a sufficient increase. If we are getting twice as many applications as are being dealt with at present, increasing the funding by 25% will not get on top of it and we will continue to have extremely long waiting lists.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I put it to the Minister that the warmer homes scheme is not a priority. The reason I say this is because the pre-works take eight to ten months, the survey takes 14 months, the works completed take 24 to 26 months and the post-works BER assessment takes two to three months. I appeal to the Minister, particularly with regard to people on the warmer homes scheme waiting list who are critically ill. They do not have the time. The situation is serious and I have not got any satisfaction from the SEAI because it says it is constrained. We have seen the most severe weather involving rain and storms. I know people in my constituency who are critically ill and desperately need these works to be done. Can the Minister fast-track these? Can he sit down with the Minister for Health and fast-track the cases on a humanitarian basis? People are experiencing elongated waits in hospital. The most vulnerable individuals in our society cannot come home because they are too cold because the work has not been done. We will work with the Minister to try to sort this out but it really needs to be sorted out.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Since the Government came to office, expenditure on this has increased from €40 million to €210 million. Members should be honest. Is that not a significant and incredible increase? The great thing we know is that thanks to the carbon tax, which Deputy Paul Murphy opposes, it will increase by the same amount next year. It is predictable, so you can get the workers and reduce waiting times because we set up a system whereby we know it will grow every year. We are going to devote half the money we raise in carbon tax to retrofitting to the poorest homes. This is deeply popular.

At the same time, we have also changed the nature of the work that is done. It has gone from shallow to deep retrofitting. When we came to office, the average payment was €1,200. It is now €24,000, so we are going much further in the houses we go into with double the amount of spending in each home. The scheme is hugely popular. There are loads of examples in this regard. I would love to be able to go into every single house tomorrow. During the Government's term of office to date, the number of applications rose from 5,682 initially to 13,983 last year. That is because it is 100% grant-funded into the privately owned houses of people who are at real risk of fuel poverty. This is the right way to target it. We all agree that this is the right thing to do. Anyone who says that an increase from €40 million to €210 million is not significant and that we should get rid of the funding to facilitate that can show me from where they are going to get the money and indicate how they are going to provide for people. How are they going to continue growing it the way we are growing it? What we are doing is significant and is dramatically improving both people's health and their homes.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I will tell the Minister how we can do what is necessary. It will not be by means of small incremental increases for a scheme that is excellent but that is completely underfunded. The Minister is saying it is acceptable for people to wait two years when they are living in the cold.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I am not.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The Minister is saying that this is great and that we should be celebrating. That is not good enough. On alternative, why do we not hit those who are responsible for the large portion of carbon emissions in this country? Why do we not hit the wealthy? The Minister probably saw the report from Oxfam last week. The richest two billionaires in this country have more wealth than half of the population. How about we hit them with a wealth tax, which would raise about €6 billion, and invest the money we get in the sort of rapid transition we need?

The truth is that the Minister's plan of getting to 120,000 homes per year will not be achieved on the basis of the warmer homes scheme and it will certainly not be achieved in light of the extremely slow progress of the councils. It is a disgrace how long people in council housing have to wait. Instead, the Minister is simply hoping to achieve what needs to happen on the basis of incentivising the wealthier households that can afford the work by providing grants to them. We should have grant schemes for them. The Minister is not giving enough money to those who need it most, namely, those in council homes and those who would qualify for the warmer homes scheme.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Again, I take the point. I have not included social housing and the Deputy is right; we need to do that as well. I am going from memory as I do not have the figures in front of me but spending before the lifetime of this Government was about €10 million and has increased to about €90 million last year. A 900% increase in spending is not small. What is an increase from €40 million to €210 million? Is it 800%? Can somebody do the maths quickly for me? It is a 500% increase. That is not small. If we achieve a 500% increase again, that would be transformative and there is nothing to stop us because of the carbon tax. Carbon tax in this country is progressive, protects the poor, improves social equality, delivers guaranteed funding and helps address the problem as well provide for the solution. The Deputy opposes to it at every turn, but it works. It delivers social justice through increased spending on the warmer homes scheme. I am glad to hear the Deputy say that the latter is an excellent scheme. It is one we need to keep growing. We will do that.