Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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81. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if his Department will allow for the redress scheme for survivors of mother and baby homes to be extended to include survivors who spent less time in a home than the current threshold of six months; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [54568/23]

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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With regard to the redress scheme for survivors of mother and baby homes, the legislation that was passed excluded those who were not in a mother and baby home for six months or more. Has the Minister considered reviewing that legislation? A significant number of people are very upset at their exclusion. It is not so much about compensation; it is more about recognition that they spent time in the mother and baby home. These people seem to have been cast adrift.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The mother and baby institutions payment scheme will provide financial payments to an estimated 34,000 people, some 19,000 of whom will also benefit from an enhanced medical card or health support payment. The benefits are in recognition of experiences while resident in mother and baby and county home institutions. The overall cost of the payment scheme is €800 million.

The Government proposal for the payment scheme was developed following deliberations on the very complex issues in question. They were informed by a consultation process, as well as a report and proposals from an interdepartmental group. The Government ultimately decided on proposals which were, in overall terms, broader than those proposed by the interdepartmental group or the commission of investigation. The scheme will provide a general payment that rises based on time spent in an institution, with eligibility determined by residence as verified by institutional records. Applicants will not be required to bring forward evidence of abuse. All mothers who spent one night or more in these institutions are eligible for the scheme.

Redress comes in many forms. In the context of children who spent less than six months in an institution and were adopted or otherwise separated from their birth family, the overwhelming priority need expressed through extensive engagement is access to records. For those children who spent short periods of time in an institution during their infancy, the action plan provides a response to their needs through the Birth Information and Tracing Act 2022 and the investment that has been made available to support implementation of this legislation. Since the information and tracing service under the Act came into being in October 2022, more than 8,500 applications for birth and early life information have been processed and provided.

Many people have been able to find out information about their origins through this legislation. Of course, both the payment scheme and Birth Information and Tracing Act 2022 are part of a wider package of measures of 22 actions set out in the Government's action plan.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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What survivors are saying to me is that there is no clinical or medical reason somebody who spent six months or less in a mother and baby home would have been treated differently from somebody who spent more than six months there. They fail to see what the criteria are. I know there is an interdepartmental group, but they are saying that they spent time in these mother and baby homes. They suffered and had trauma and they are carrying that with them. There is no medical or any other scientific threshold by which these survivors should be left out of the redress scheme.

While they have gotten help in terms of the tracing and all that goes with that, when we look at what is available, such as GP cards and all that type of thing, they are an ageing population, and it is incumbent on us all to do something for these people more than what is being done at the moment.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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In terms of our response to everybody who spent time, even one day, within a mother and baby home or county home institution, we have set out the action plan with a range of actions. The initial action was the State apology by An Taoiseach delivered in early 2021 to all people who spent any time in these institutions. In terms of other elements, however, as I said, the information and tracing element is providing information now to more than 8,500 people. There is the record and memorial centre in Seán MacDermott Street, work on which is taking place right now. That will stand as a site of conscience to those who spent time within these institutions. There is the availability of free counselling to anyone who was in one of these institutions through the National Counselling Service, NCS. Our Department is focused now on getting this scheme up and running. There is a review clause in the scheme. This scheme will be reviewed through its operation, but right now, the priority is to get that scheme up and running as quickly as possible for those 34,000 people who are eligible.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Canney will speak and then we will have a supplementary question.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The biggest gripe or the biggest regret these people have is that although there has been legislation, and it is all very good, a divide has been created. People are being treated differently because of a six-month timeframe. I believe that is wrong, and the people who are affected by this are genuinely upset about it. They cannot understand or get their heads around the fact that they are being treated differently for being in one of these institutions for up to six months from a person who was in for six months and one day. What is the difference? There are no medical, scientific or any other criteria that can be used to define the difference. There is no way to do so. They are all survivors, and they feel they should all be treated the same.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I call Deputy Murnane O'Connor.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The action plan the Government brought forward in response to the commission's report is directed at all survivors, irrespective of the time they spent in an institution. There are various elements to that action plan. The institutional payment scheme is one important element, but it is not the sole element in terms of the Government's response. I outlined in my earlier response to Deputy Canney the universal elements of the action plan.

I agree with Deputy Murnane O'Connor. I understand the concern among survivors in terms of being able to make their applications. We have designed the legislation so that some of those survivors who are older or ill will be able to be prioritised. This is going to be a big scheme to which 34,000 people will be applying.

We know that when the birth information system was set up within Tusla and the Adoption Authority of Ireland, we did not have enough infrastructure from day one, and that caused delays. We want to avoid that in this situation, which is why we have been bringing on staff, updating the necessary IT infrastructure and, again coming from the recommendations of committee on which Deputies Murnane O'Connor and Funchion sat, making sure there is trauma-informed training for the staff in appreciation of the very difficult situations that many of the people who will be applying to the scheme underwent in these institutions. We hope to have the scheme open for applications in quarter 1 of next year.