Dáil debates
Wednesday, 13 December 2023
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Agriculture Schemes
9:10 am
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, for coming in this morning. I note that the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, is not here. I very much appreciate the Minister of State who has come in here although it is not for her Department. I know the Minister was at COP but he is back; he was around the House last night. We were told that in the event the Minister was not here and the topic was to be discussed last night, it would be the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who would take it. Again, the Minister of State is not from the Department of the Minister: I do appreciate how diligent and hard-working he is, as I do all the Ministers here.
When Topical Issues was established, it was so Ministers could be interrogated about the work of their Department. Increasingly, Ministers avoid that by not showing up and it is facilitated by the Ceann Comhairle's office. I appreciate that the Chair this morning is the Leas-Cheann Comhairle rather than the Ceann Comhairle but this denigration of the Dáil is something that needs to be remarked upon. I do not wish to take any more of my time on it but I will be writing to the Ceann Comhairle about it.
ACRES is a much-heralded scheme of the Department of agriculture. It replaces various schemes, REPS being one of them, and GLAS as it became. There was quite a bit of controversy about it for a number of reasons, primarily because it failed to adequately encourage farmers who were farming in marginal areas or areas that were the subject of a designation, and therefore there was a particular environmental sensitivity around the type of agriculture that could be practised there. With such lip service being paid to the environment by the former Taoiseach and current Tánaiste, and to a slightly lesser extent by the current Taoiseach, with the Green Party in government one might expect that these areas might be better protected but in fact they are worse.
For example, the hen harrier scheme was established in the Slieve Aughties in Clare and other areas which are designated for the protection of the hen harrier. It is a very important designation inn Annex 1 species, a bird in decline. It is a pity one might say that the protection does not apply in other areas right beside the Slieve Aughties but that is a slightly different matter. In any event, farmers bought into this and carried out the actions that were required of them. Suddenly, it was just pulled with very little forewarning. Likewise the Burren Life project. I notice the former Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Creed, is here. Did he have his photograph taken in the Burren? If he did not, he was certainly unique among Ministers in the Department of agriculture for 20 years. There was a procession of them down to the Burren to have their photographs taken with this very successful Burren Life project, and the current incumbent just decided to end it just like that. I raised it with the then Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, and he said farmers should not be out of pocket but they are and will be out of pocket because the Burren Life scheme was axed. If we combine what farmers were getting under the GLAS scheme and the hen harriers scheme, or the GLAS scheme and the Burren Life scheme, it is down.
On top of that, they are not being paid at all because there is a delay now. Usually the Department of agriculture pays out 50% of a scheme early. The calculations can be done thereafter and if someone does not fully comply or if there are issues around it the Department can claw that back from the other 50%. Deputy Brendan Smith, who is also a former Minister for Agriculture and sometimes sits behind me, raised this in the Dáil and asked why 50% of the amount could not be paid out. In fact, none of the amount is to be paid out in the co-operation areas which are generally in a designated area or an area that is particularly environmentally sensitive. Instead of being rewarded, they are being penalised. They have costs to meet. Farmers run a business. I know very few people in this Dáil run a business but they run a business, they have bills to pay now based on the fact that they were projecting getting that income now.
I appreciate it is not the Minister of State's Department and I thank her for coming in. It is a pity the Minister has copped out by not coming. I look forward to knowing what the Department plans to do.
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank Deputy McNamara for giving me the opportunity to update the House as regards the agri-climate rural environment scheme, in particular the scheduling of payments to farmers under the scheme. ACRES as we better know it is the agri-environment climate measure under Ireland's CAP strategic plan 2023-2027. In line with the commitment in the programme for Government, this flagship environmental scheme to which the Government has committed over €1.5 billion over its duration, was launched in 2022 and proved to be well received. This was evident from the exceptional demand for entry into the scheme, which demonstrates the interest of farmers to take on actions to address climate, biodiversity and environmental issues. While it had originally been intended that 30,000 farmers would be accepted into the scheme in tranche 1, as a Government, a decision was made that all valid applications submitted for tranche 1 would be accepted. That meant now that some 46,000 farmers were able to commence their participation in the scheme from 1 January 2023, which I am told is the largest intake into an agri-environment scheme in one tranche.
This acceptance of 46,000 applicants into the scheme has, as the Deputy is aware, created significant pressure on the Department of agriculture's ability to make advance payments to all participants by the year end as had been planned. The structure of the scheme, which has two approaches, general and co-operation, as well as new features such as results-based scoring, has also contributed to that pressure. No two contracts are the same as they can be comprised of either prescription or results-based actions or a combination of both, with a range of validations to be applied to ensure the correct amount payable is determined.
While officials have been working to expedite payments, it will not be possible with the unprecedented numbers and the complexity of the work required to make an advance payment to all ACRES participants by the end of this year. The schedule is that advance payments will commence on 18 December 2023, just next week, with payments for two thirds of all ACRES general participants in the final stage of being processed to go out in that first payment run. While payment for ACRES participants in the co-operation approach are being progressed, the position is that due to the additional complexity associated with that approach, including the fact that the bulk of payments are results based, payments for that cohort of participants will begin to issue in February 2024. Everything possible is being done to pay all ACRES participants as soon as possible. As the Deputy will appreciate, it is important for budgetary and audit purposes and for farmers themselves that the correct payment is made at the outset. I appreciate the call for a once-off, interim or 50% payment. The Department is of the view that it is not an alternative and that they want to get it right on the first occasion. They say it would undermine the integrity of the ACRES scheme as any such expenditure, they say, would not meet the standards required to access EU funding in accordance with the new performance reporting obligations under the CAP strategic plan.
The Government acknowledges the intensive and focused efforts of all involved in the implementation of the scheme, including farmers, advisers, ACRES co-operation project teams and the officials across government who are working together for the first year of this new scheme. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine acknowledges that farmers were expecting payment before the end of this year. Every effort is being made to maximise the number of ACRES general applicants who will be paid in the period before Christmas, commencing as I mentioned, on 18 December. Efforts will continue to be made to ensure that payments for ACRES co-operation participants are processed and cleared for payment as quickly as possible in early 2024.
The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has paid out €1.3 billion to farmers in CAP payments since October on schemes such as the basic income support for sustainability, BISS, complementary redistributive income support for sustainability, CRISS, the eco scheme and the areas of natural constraint scheme. There is a significant flow of payments going out. The structure of ACRES is at the forefront of agri-environmental schemes throughout Europe. It really is an ambitious undertaking to scale up the results-based approach that had been used before in certain European innovation partnership projects up to a national level. The roll-out of a scheme is always challenging at the outset in order to get it right. However, efforts are being made to ensure that payments will be made on a more timely basis in the future.
9:20 am
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
The Minister of State outlined the reasons for the delay, including the fact that it is not scored like the previous measures. However, it was the Department that determined there would be scoring in this. The Department set all the parameters of the scheme. Farmers had a simple choice to make, take it or leave it. They took it because they believed they had nothing to lose. In fact, they are losing out. They have bills coming in specifically to do with compliance with this scheme. It is a very expensive scheme to join in terms of the administrative costs. There is a great deal of money to be paid to agricultural advisers. The biggest is Teagasc, which is not a firm of agricultural advisers but a semi-State body. It has sent out bills to farmers for €700 or so because it helped them to join the scheme. I appreciate that we have the benefit of being elected to a State institution and that our salaries, etc., are protected. However, farmers owe €700 each to Teagasc, which has warned that it wants the money now or that it will start charging interest.
The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Marine is a shareholder in Teagasc. He holds the shares on behalf of the State, does he not? Certainly, all of the shares are held on behalf of the State. The Department is not paying out the money because it made matters more difficult for itself than had been planned. That is outrageous. Will the Minister talk to Teagasc and tell it to hold off on the bills, on charging interest and on issuing further demand letters until such time as payments are made under ACRES? This is a very specific question. I appreciate that the Minister of State is not even in the Department that will make the decision on this matter. Topical Issues were created in order that Deputies might interrogate relevant Departments. I see three Ministers here today, two of them are taking questions that have nothing to do with their responsibilities. I congratulate them on being here. I appreciate that they are here, but we should have an opportunity to put questions to the relevant Ministers.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
We are over time.
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Yes, I am out of time. However, the Minister is arguably out of order by not being here. That is all fine with the Ceann Comhairle's office.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
If the Minister of State would help me to gain some time, I would appreciate it.
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
That is not a problem. I appreciate the point Deputy McNamara makes. I referred earlier to two thirds of ACRES general participants claims being in the final stages of being processed before year-end. It is now 13 December, and 18 December is next week. I will interrogate with the Minister the question or otherwise of a State body charging interest in respect of a bill. That does not seem like a practical thing to do when working hand in hand with the Department to try to achieve a results-based outcome. I will confirm the position. I appreciate that the Deputy is better informed on matters of agriculture than I, but there is a practical, logistical point here that the payments are being processed before year-end. There are also payments being processed for February 2024.
The Deputy is enthusiastic to get back in. I remind him that I appreciate that the Minister is not here. The Deputy does get an enormous amount of speaking time relative to Government backbenchers. The way the Dáil is structured now allows great opportunity to enable Deputies to have significant time, whereas Government backbenchers have-----
Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
It is a pity the Minister does not take some of his speaking time.
Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
Government backbenchers have far less time to have opportunities to contribute, including on Government business. This is the first time that we have delivered such a complex payment structure. Does the Deputy not think it appropriate that the Department should get it right rather than having to go back and forth, which would double the administration and double the slowness? It is better to get it right the first time. I appreciate the points that were made.