Dáil debates
Tuesday, 12 December 2023
Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions
Legal Aid
9:00 pm
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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45. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality if she intends to launch a review of the legal aid system, including a review of how legal aid is paid, and to whom; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [55073/23]
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister of State intend to launch a review of the legal aid system, including a review of how legal aid is paid and to whom and will he make a statement on the matter?
James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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In its over 40 years of operation, the civil legal aid scheme has been a significant and beneficial public service, providing legal aid and advice to people of limited means in civil disputes, including family law. However, since the scheme was set up Irish society has changed and the demands on the services have grown. In June 2022, the Minister for Justice, Deputy Helen McEntee, established the civil legal aid review group to review the current operation of the civil legal aid scheme and make recommendations for its future. The review group is chaired by former Chief Justice Frank Clarke and the membership is drawn from legal practitioners, academics, Department officials, those who work with marginalised groups, and representatives from the Legal Aid Board, which administers the statutory scheme.
The financial eligibility threshold for the civil legal aid scheme was last revised for income in 2006 and for capital assets in 2013. The current review will allow for an assessment of how flexible and responsive the scheme is to the needs of those it is intended to serve, including in relation to financial eligibility. As part of the review, the comprehensive multi-phased process of consultation has been conducted to ensure that as wide a range of views as possible is captured. The results of all elements of the consultation are now being carefully considered by the review group. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, looks forward to receiving its report when finalised and considering its recommendations. This matter will be dealt with as quickly as possible.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad to hear about the review group but I am looking for a timescale. Every day I have people who come into my office who are over the financial threshold and they are not getting the assistance they need. The Chief Justice's working group this summer referenced that the budget for legal aid was around €50 million but there was a huge unmet legal need in family law and employment law and there are areas like disability that are not really being dealt with enough by the Legal Aid Board or independent law centres. I am particularly concerned about those who are fleeing domestic violence. Legal aid is supposed to be free for people who are facing domestic violence. It does not seem right that the people who need it are not getting it. Perhaps the Minister of State will come back to me on those points.
James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I assure the Deputy that the work of the civil legal aid review group is advancing following on from the progress report received in May. The scheme is important for those who face particular barriers in accessing justice. The group's recommendations will be vital to ensuring that those with the most acute needs get the support to resolve their legal disputes, as outlined by the Deputy. This is particularly important in relation to family justice. We know that the civil legal aid scheme seeks in particular to meet the needs of those with family law issues. Family mediation is also an important aspect of the landscape and one that the review group has been asked to examine as well.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for that response but my issue is that the scheme is means tested. The allowance given to families does not cover all the needs that are there. The law is that the aid is not given to anyone with means of over €18,000 a year. I have had several cases of women whose earnings are barely over it and not by much. If one breaks down €18,000 per year, it works out about €350 per week, which is incredibly low enough. These women are not getting this aid. They might be just barely over €350 a week or they could be on €400 a week and they are told they will not get free legal aid. When the review is being done I ask that the Minister of State looks at the threshold. One lady came into my office recently and asked me if she should give up work. She said that if she gave up work she would get free legal aid and everything else she was entitled to get. I told her to keep working and that a review was going on and the Minister would look at it. We need to make sure the most vulnerable get this help, particularly if they are doing their best. They are trying to work and then they are not getting it.
James Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I can assure the Deputy the review is looking in particular at the most acute needs of those who need the support. As I said earlier, most financial eligibility thresholds have not been considered for quite some time and that is the very essence of this review.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State.