Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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7. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment for an update on the energy security review; how it will inform Government policy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50262/23]

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Can I have an update on the energy security review and how it will inform Government policy? I understand that a similar question may have been dealt with earlier, but we will delve into the matter a little more.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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There was an earlier question. Without being disrespectful to the drafters of the written reply, maybe I gave a similar response to the first question today. I might, if I can, add to that the basic details of it - 28 actions, a series of annex reports, from former Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach, Mr. Dermot McCarthy, and from Cambridge Economic Policy Associates, CEPA.

The key recognition is energy security. We could look at one issue, but it is first and foremost about reducing our use of energy. That is the first key priority. Second, it is about switching to renewables. There is a complete connection between meeting our climate targets and providing energy security. They are not contrary or competing; they are very much complementary. The third leg of this table of security we need to create is resilient systems. That means that in the interim period, and it is interim and temporary, we need a short-term storage facility. In a world where we have seen gas pipelines blown up and anchors dragged across others, we need to have a short-term, temporary gas storage facility that is State-led and strategic, not commercial. On the governance aspect, Dermot McCarthy's report is important. It was published in full and showed that there was no lack of motivation, professionalism or real integrity within our agencies and our regulators and so on, but we do need to use it as a review.

I do not believe we have focused sufficient attention historically on either climate or climate security. We need to do that. We do that by changing the number of hours that we might tolerate in terms of loss of load as one example. There is an opportunity to look at the structures we have. We have a regulatory system that was designed very much back in the previous decades. For example, the one reporting line that CRU has is to the Oireachtas committee. While the committee does really important and good work, the Government also needs a clear line of communication and an ability to interact and engage. It is about maintaining the independence of our regulatory system and our markets approach but also about having the ability to co-ordinate the State's strategic response to this great leap we need to make to cleaner energy and a more secure future.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I will hone in on one element, namely, the State-led liquified natural gas, LNG, storage capacity. How will the Minister ensure that the relevant entity and its infrastructure will be fully controlled by the State? My understanding is that it is expected that it could be along the lines of a public private partnership, PPP. We have seen with PPPs across the country that while the intention might have been to have State control, in many instances this has not been the case. When the Minister asks Gas Networks Ireland, GNI, to investigate this, what parameters is he giving it to ensure that the entity will be 100% State-owned? That needs to be the case so that people have trust that this will be a very temporary and only a transitional facility, and also that we have control over what gas is going in there and where that gas is coming from.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The key parameter is the strategic outcome and the security. We want to have a vessel that is there and know it is not being used just to sell gas on. It will be there to provide a continuous level of security and will be operated in a way that gives us that.

In terms of ownership, we need to get the lowest price for the Irish consumer. Without being definitive, maybe we could get a very good lease option on a vessel rather than a purchase option. In those circumstances, we would take the lease option because it is lower cost. I do not think we have to be categoric on the exact mechanism of delivery of the particular piece of infrastructure. It is absolutely strategic, first of all, in respect of our climate targets. We are probably quite unique in this country at the moment in that we are one of the few saying that we are not just going to put in new LNG and see a massive expansion in the use of gas, which has happened in a lot of our neighbouring countries. We are saying we do not want to expand the use of gas. We want to reduce the use of gas, but we recognise that there will be interim days and certain periods when the wind is not blowing when we may have a need for gas just for that particular circumstance. It is about having a strategic approach. It is there for those events, unlikely as they are. It is not there as a commercial facility to sell gas.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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If GNI is being tasked with the investigation and examination of this, and I assume the operation of it as well, does the Minister have confidence that it gets the whole area of climate? GNI was giving connections for islanded data centres, which is completely in non-compliance with our climate obligations. The Minister wrote to GNI last year and asked it to stop that. The fact is that he had to ask GNI to stop it, and it is a year down the road and it still not 100% the case. GNI is still connecting thousands upon thousands of homes to the gas network. This concept of reducing the use of gas in order that it is only a transitional resource is not quite within its remit yet. I am wondering whether the Minister has any concerns about whether Government policy in relation to meeting our climate objectives is also a key policy of GNI, and whether it will fulfil the obligations and needs of the Minister and those of the State in this regard.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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It absolutely has to be for the future of GNI. It has to see this transition as its own. I spoke at a recent conference and made a comparison, which I think is a useful one. Looking at Bord na Móna, four years ago it found itself in really challenging circumstances. It was legally required to stop the production of peat. It has turned matters around and is probably the most successful, fastest-growing, biggest-investing green company in the country, if not Europe. It is a model for how to transition from brown to green. GNI needs to do the same. It needs to switch towards an area where there are real skills in laying pipes and working with communities in understanding how to deliver energy. District heating, and not gas networks, is where the future is going to be, in my mind. The roll-out of biomethane and anaerobic digestion, where we do get sustainable zero-carbon gas solutions, have to be centre stage. There is lots of work to be done and lots of investments to be made. If GNI does not switch to the low-carbon future, it will not have a future. It is a proud company with excellent executives and brilliant workers. By making the switch, we guarantee the security of the company, as well of the country.