Dáil debates

Thursday, 19 October 2023

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Heritage Sites

6:40 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The fourth item I have selected comes from Deputy Durkan, who wishes to discuss the ongoing impasse regarding vehicular access to Castletown House, Celbridge, County Kildare. It is a very hot local issue, and a national issue as well.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this particularly sensitive and important issue in the House at this time. I am aware a meeting took place this evening at about 5 p.m. but unfortunately we could not be in the two places; bilocation is not one of our achievements just yet. However, a continued discussion took place at that meeting between the Office of Public Works, OPW, and local residents with a view to facilitating the works that remain to be undertaken to safeguard the roof and ensure the building of Castletown House is maintained in a proper order. I hope some arrangement was reached. I also must again point out the anxiety of the residents. They are not unreasonable people and have put forward various suggestions over the past six months. The area through which the OPW was allowed to gain access to the lands and house at Castletown House is no longer available to it and efforts have been made to facilitate an alternative. Unfortunately, that alternative so far is not something that can receive the support of local residents, in that the traffic from Castletown would go to and from the house through the main old front gates. The point has been made by the residents and by all of the public representatives that traffic plans and volumes have changed considerably since the front gates of Castletown House and the house itself was built because now there is intense traffic congestion on the main street in Celbridge and its environs. A solution has to be found whereby the needs of both sides can be achieved without in any way creating an issue that we may have to deal with in the future.

The issue still continues and we have suggested to the OPW that it should try to get a legal counsel's opinion on the possibility of restoring the access that was previously available while negotiations take place, without in any way impinging on the entitlements of the adjoining landholder across whose property access was gained for the last 15 years, albeit on licence. It is important to reassure the residents and all concerned in the country at large that access to the house is guaranteed in the future in a way that is acceptable and in line with the requirements of traffic and of the State in maintaining its property in a way it sees fit. The State, through the OPW owns 230 acres in the Castletown estate and the house itself. The fact that negotiations were taking place regarding a larger area of land adjacent to Castletown House is fine. We all accept and support that. However, what is really important at this stage is to reassure the residents that if proceedings are allowed to go ahead as they are, access to and from Castletown House via the front gate onto Main Street will become the only access that becomes available in the future, which would be a traffic management disaster. I hope the meeting that took place this evening was a fruitful one and that the Minister of State has the information emanating from it. If not, we must go back to the drawing board once again. I thank the Minister of State for coming to the House this evening and I strongly urge that every effort be made and continued to restore access to the premises.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I will set out the position here. To be clear, I do not have the latest update from a meeting that took place at 5 p.m. I have been in the Chamber since then myself. The OPW is responsible for Castletown House. In 2008, it reassembled 227 acres of the original estate. The OPW attempted to purchase the lands from Janus Securities on several occasions, including in 2022 but it was outbid. In May 2023, the OPW engaged in negotiations for a licence agreement with the new landowners but could not agree on terms. Access to the M4 road and car park was allowed until 15 September 2023. The OPW entered into negotiations with the new landowners on a licence agreement in May 2023. While the OPW was prepared to pay the significant uplift in the licence fee the landowners were seeking, it could not agree to the unreasonable terms of the licence agreement. The landowners then allowed use of the M4 access road and carpark until 15 September. However, the OPW has a responsibility to ensure public access to Castletown House and estate and is funded by the Oireachtas to do so. To ensure public access, the OPW explored creating a temporary car park within State-owned lands but this plan was abandoned after community feedback. With only the Avenue, Celbridge, as vehicular access, a community protest group has blocked access for OPW staff and contractors since 30 September, leading to difficulties in site maintenance and operations.

The OPW has continually sought to find a solution to these challenges within the community. Following intensive dialogue, and with the help of an independent facilitator, the OPW secured the agreement of three out of four local community groups to allow for limited access to Castletown House and estate for OPW staff, as well as essential suppliers and contractors. This access is crucial in order to ensure the house and its collections remain safe and secure. It is also critical that contractors are allowed unimpeded access to the demesne, both to confirm that the site is safe for visitors and to carry out maintenance and conservation works. Despite the protocol being set to operate from yesterday, 18 October, local community protesters continued to block access, prompting the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, to convene a meeting with various representatives to address the situation including all elected representatives, community representatives, representatives of Kildare County Council and from An Garda Síochána, and the union representing staff employed at Castletown House and estate. The impact of the protest on the health, safety, and welfare of OPW staff is a concern, and vehicular access through the Celbridge gate and Lime Avenue is necessary. Similar protocols have been safely implemented at heritage sites across Ireland. The OPW has continued to engage with the landowners. While the M4 access is an important amenity, in particular for local recreational users of the estate, the OPW can only agree to reasonable and feasible terms in any negotiation to ensure value for money for all taxpayers in Ireland. As these are confidential commercial negotiations, it is not appropriate to discuss these matters.

The OPW faces challenges in ensuring access to Castletown House and estate, with community protests affecting staff safety and its maintenance. It seeks support for a protocol that allows vehicular access and remains committed to expanding the historic estate when that is possible.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for the update. I recognise that we were all here all evening and that it was not possible to get the updated position otherwise. The situation is simply this. The local residents who have not agreed to the protocol at this stage are really concerned. They are concerned about Castletown House itself and they want to ensure the works to restore it and that its operation and the way it was available for tourism, educational and amenity purposes will continue in the future. They are equally anxious to get some kind of guarantee that the process now in hand does not prevent or exclude the return to the use of the M4 route into Castletown House. We know this has been the subject of negotiations. It would be helpful, however, if it were possible to get counsel’s opinion as to whether it was possible to go back over the course and negotiate with the owner of the adjoining lands to achieve precisely the route that was previously enjoyed. If this does not happen, and the only route available is the one through the main Castletown gate into Celbridge, this is going to cause a lot of difficulty, angst and concern. I emphasise again that the local residents, local people, have an interest in the historical value of Castletown House and an equal interest in ensuring its restoration continues. The OPW has spent a considerable amount of money on it annually over several years, and hopefully will continue to do. Lastly, I again emphasis the extent to which the residents can be given some indication that the access through the main gates by way of Lime Avenue is not going to become a permanent one, because it simply will not work. I ask the OPW to engage on this particular issue in a very serious way and the rest of the problems can be resolved.

Photo of Thomas ByrneThomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Durkan for his long-time commitment to Castletown House and estate. Everybody recognises the efforts of the OPW and the State in the care and preservation of Castletown House. I will say that the OPW wants to continue to welcome visitors to Castletown House. However, the impact of the protest is that the refuse cannot be collected, staff are working without heating, the essential systems in the house cannot be maintained and serviced, and essential works to the outdoor areas of the estate cannot be done to ensure the site is safe for staff and visitors. It is now critical that all elected and community representatives enable the OPW to undertake these essential works. The points I have already made about the negotiations stand and I wish them a successful conclusion.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 7.31 p.m. go dtí 2 p.m., Dé Máirt, an 24 Deireadh Fómhair 2023.

The Dáil adjourned at at 7.31 p.m. until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 24 October 2023.