Dáil debates
Wednesday, 4 October 2023
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Health Services Staff
9:10 am
Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and Ceann Comhairle for selecting this very important Topical Issue, which addresses a matter of profound importance, one that demands immediate and resolute action. It concerns the livelihoods and well-being of the incredible individuals who dedicate their lives to caring for and supporting the most vulnerable in our society. I implore the Minister of State, Deputy Heydon, who is taking this Topical Issue on behalf of the Minister with responsibility, to listen carefully to their pleas and pave the way for a brighter future for our section 39 workers, including those in Western Care and the Irish wheelchair services, as well as countless others in my constituency and across the country.
Let me paint a stark picture. Many of these selfless workers, who provide an incredible lifeline to those in need, have not seen an increase in pay since 2008. That is more than a decade of stagnation in their wages. It is an injustice and cries out for rectification. These dedicated individuals are the backbone of our social care system, serving tirelessly in disability, homelessness and mental health services and a magnitude of other community-based programmes.
There exists an unacceptable disparity between their pay rates when compared to their counterparts in the HSE and other State agencies. Basic allowances and essential leave provisions should be standard and are missing from their employment conditions. As a result, their morale is at an all-time low and the sector is suffering from a severe recruitment and retention crisis. We cannot blame these workers for seeking better pay, improved terms and fairer conditions elsewhere. They, too, have families to provide for and dreams to fulfil, yet as they leave, we are witnessing the erosion of vital services that we, as a society, cannot do without.
This morning, I ask that the Minister of State ensures that the Government sets an example in relation to section 39 workers. We cannot afford to lose them and we cannot stand idly by while they suffer. It is time for action. I ask that he discusses this with the Minister who has responsibility in this area before the upcoming budget.
9:15 am
Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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I echo what Deputy Dillon has said. I thank the Minister of State for taking this issue this morning. It is a pity that the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, himself is not present to listen to us.
Section 39 workers in our healthcare service are at the coalface morning, noon and night. I spoke to some of the service users in the Irish Wheelchair Association, IWA, in Tipperary town the other day. I listened to the service users, who said that from the time they wake up in the morning to the time they go to bed at night, they are dependent on section 39 workers to get them out of bed, wash them and take them shopping. They are the most vulnerable and marginalised in our society. If this strike goes ahead, it will put untold pressure on them. I spoke to workers who do not under any circumstances want to face going on strike. However, as Deputy Dillon said, it is 2008 since they got a pay rise. After 2008, when the push came, they took two cuts. All they are looking for is pay parity. We are all talking about the cost of living, etc. However, if there is a difference of €4.20 per hour between the section 39 workers and the HSE workers, it is a no-brainer that once they are trained to a certain level, the HSE will poach them. Then, all the services, such as the IWA, the resource centres and all the places where section 39 workers work are being drained of staff. It is completely wrong.
I hope the Minister of State will bring this issue back to the Minister. It must not be a case of giving them a piecemeal percentage of a rise to try to solve this. The least that these workers are entitled to is pay parity. They are doing the same type of work as those in the public sector working for the HSE and so on. Again, I am ash the Minister of State to bring this issue back strongly to the Minister.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I would like to thank both Deputies for raising this important issue. It affects all of us in each of our constituencies around the country. We all know of the really vital work that is carried out by the people we are discussing here this morning.
The sustainability and stability of health and social care sectors are a concern for Government and we recognise the ability of voluntary organisations to pay their staff is highly dependent on State funding. We are, therefore, committed to resolving this issue. I am particularly aware that staff recruitment and retention challenges are affecting the sustainability and stability of section 39 and section 56 organisations and their ability to deliver services on behalf of the State.
These challenges are mirrored in many of the health and social care professions throughout the country. In July, the Departments of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, and Health made a combined offer of a 5% pay funding increase to employer bodies. This offer was in line with those that have been accepted by community and voluntary staff in other sectors. The offer to workers in this sector amounted to a 5% increase in funding for pay effective from November 2023, with 3% backdated to April 2023. This offer remains on the table and includes a commitment to re-engage with trade union representatives following any further public sector pay agreement. This combined offer was not accepted by trade union representatives and early last week unions representing some section 39 and section 56 workers announced that their members in a selection of employer organisations would take indefinite strike action from Tuesday, 17 October.
I understand that actions will involve health and community workers in a variety of grades and in multiple locations across 19 voluntary service provider organisations. Any industrial action will impact negatively on the people who use their services, and I encourage the unions and employers to return to the negotiation process, to avoid industrial action and the negative impacts this will have on service users. In the meantime, the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth is working with the relevant agencies, Tusla and the HSE, that are engaged in contingency planning with the employer organisations that will be affected by industrial action, so that any impact on those who depend on these essential services can be managed to the greatest extent possible.
While the Government has engaged in a process through the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, it is worth noting that section 39 and section 56 organisations are privately owned and operated, and the terms and conditions of employment for staff in those organisations are ultimately between the employer and their employees. I do, however, recognise the point that has been made by the Deputies that a solution to the current situation will involve much-needed additional investment into these sectors. Acknowledging the critical nature of the current situation, the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth is engaged in ongoing dialogue with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Delivery and Reform, the HSE and Tusla in respect of budget 2024. These discussions are still progressing and until they are concluded, it would not be appropriate to comment further on the level of available funding to address this or any other area that could benefit from increased funding next year.
Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response, which is greatly appreciated. However, this sector is in dire straits and demands immediate action. Up to 5,000 health and community workers who play a critical role in our society are on the brink of indefinite strike action from 17 October. While I accept that the 5% pay funding increase was put on the table, it certainly did not go far enough for many organisations. These dedicated section 39 workers employed in voluntary, not-for-profit health organisations have undergone rigorous training and education, as have their counterparts in section 38 organisations, such as the HSE workers. They work under the same conditions, face the same challenges and have the same responsibilities. Why are they treated differently? They are not asking for special treatment. All they are asking for is equal treatment. It is a simple and just request. No longer can they be ignored. I ask that the 5% that is on the table would be increased and that we would see a fairer offer being made to these section 39 workers.
Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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As Deputy Dillon pointed out, the offer of a 5% increase cannot be accepted. It is as simple as that. All these workers were treated the same when the pay cuts came. All they are asking for is the same treatment when pay is being replaced. The figure of 5% is the exact reason there is a problem with recruitment and retention in the service. There is a difference of €4.20 per hour between section 39 workers and HSE workers. It is clear and simple that the longer pay restoration is avoided, the longer workers in section 39 organisations will be out. We cannot paint enough the pressure that services are going to be under. The Government will say the HSE will take on all this work while the strike is on, but nobody in this House believes that the HSE is capable of doing that work at the minute because it is under so much pressure. It will, therefore, be outsourced again to private companies. We are pleading with the Government to get around the table, bring the unions back in, treat the section 39 workers the exact same and ensure pay parity for them for doing the same amount of work.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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Again, I thank both Deputies for raising this point. It is important that is discussed in the House because these people do crucial work for us around the country. It is a complex area because of the historical nature of section 39 and section 56 workers. Similar considerations arise in respect of other sectors across government, adding to the complexity in seeking to resolve matters in any specific sector. All parties that are involved want to see a meaningful resolution that will improve sustainability and the ability of these vital organisations to actively recruit and retain staff, and for those staff to be happy in their circumstances.
The Departments have made an offer of a pay increase in line with offers that have been accepted by community and voluntary workers in other sectors. This offer is still available and the Department remains available to return to the WRC. I encourage the unions and employers to return to this process and to avoid industrial action and the negative impacts this will have on service users so we can try to come to a satisfactory conclusion for all sides.