Dáil debates
Thursday, 21 September 2023
Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions
Health Services Staff
9:00 am
Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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2. To ask the Minister for Health what efforts he has made to resolve the pay parity gap in section 39 organisations funded through the health budget in order to improve recruitment and retention in these services; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40547/23]
Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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I ask for an update on the efforts of the Minister and his Department regarding what has been done to help resolve the pay parity issue in respect of section 39 organisations, which are predominantly funded from the health budget and provide such an important service in buttressing and supporting our health service in the community.
Hildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I am taking this question on behalf of the Minister who, as the Deputy knows, cannot be here.
It is important to acknowledge the vital role that section 39 and section 56 organisations and their staff play in our health and social care sectors.
They continue to have a key role in providing services to people with disabilities, vulnerable children, older people and in other social care settings.
The Government has a clear interest in ensuring the stability and sustainability of these services. The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth is the lead Department on this topic, as the majority of the organisations in question fall under its remit. Officials in the Department of Health are working closely with their colleagues in the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth on this matter. I am aware that they have been engaging extensively with the unions over recent months under the auspices of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and have been supported in these discussions by officials from the Department of Health, the HSE and Tusla. This process culminated in an offer being made in line with that accepted by the same trade unions in other sectors across the wider public sector in recent months. The offer to workers in this sector amounted to a 5% increase in funding for pay, effective from November 2023, with 3% backdated to April 2023, and a commitment to re-engage with trade union representatives following the next public sector pay agreement. Unfortunately, this offer was not accepted by trade union representatives. It is disappointing that their members were not afforded the opportunity to vote on whether they wished to accept the 5% increase in pay funding and that the unions instead elected to ballot for industrial action. As such action would impact negatively on people who rely on these services, I urge all parties to work on resolving any disputes through the appropriate forums and uphold industrial peace in the interests of people who use our health service. An announcement regarding the result of the ballot and any plan for industrial action is expected to be made by the unions at a press conference on Monday, 25 September. As this is an ongoing industrial relations matter, it would be inappropriate to comment any further at this point.
9:10 am
Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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The offer from the Government was designed to fail. It was nowhere near what was needed to resolve the pay parity and pay justice issue. Even management in section 39 organisations has been saying that. On the back of what we are seeing with St. Michael's House, which is a section 38 organisation, with young adults coming out of the school service and having no service available, where does the responsibility for that service go? The section 39 organisations are being asked to meet that requirement. These section 39 workers, as well as the section 56 workers and others outside of that in drug and alcohol services, are shouldering the burden. I am thinking of Prosper Fingal in my constituency, which is unable to meet the demographic pressures of operating in such a young, fast-growing constituency such as Dublin Fingal. Never mind the organisation being able to grow its service, it is struggling to sustain it. The Government's offer was designed to fail. No leadership is being shown here. We, the trade unions and the workers believe there is no real desire on the part of the Government to solve this issue, despite the healthy state of the State’s finances.
Hildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I reiterate that section 39 and section 56 organisations and their staff play a vital role in our healthcare and social care sectors.
Officials in the Department and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth are waiting on the result of the ballot. Officials from both Departments remain available to re-engage with unions at any time in an effort to bring this matter to a resolution. It is also important to remember that these are private employers and, as such, the Government has no authority or ability to change the terms and conditions of these workers. I appreciate that there are many organisations with staff who have similar or equivalent roles to workers in the HSE. However, it must be noted that there are more than 1,500 organisations within the sector. As the State is not the employer, we have a limited ability to verify the position. Attempting to increase the pay of workers in this sector by 9.5% may result in further disparity. The Government has little or no information in relation to many of these organisations and the terms and conditions of their employees. I reiterate that officials are ready to engage with unions at any time to resolve this issue.
Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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The unions have never been backwards in wanting to engage with the Government on this. The Government is not meeting the basic asks these workers require. However, we are where we are. We do not yet have the results but we know there will be a mandate for industrial action, up to and including an all-out strike. If that happens, it will be a hammer blow to communities. The difference in this case is that the families involved, and even the management of the 39 organisations, support the workers and their call. Everyone in the community is behind them because people know they provide a vital service to their service users. We have been speaking about this issue now since I was elected to the Dáil more than three years ago. Unfortunately, this campaign does not seem to be registering with the Government. We need reform of the sector and proper pay for the workers in it. Otherwise, the bottom will fall out of the sector. If it does, it will spell disaster for the most vulnerable in our society.
Hildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I am at one with the Deputy that we need to ensure the stability and sustainability of this sector. It is important that this matter is brought to a resolution. As I said, the Departments are willing to re-engage with the unions at any point in this process. It is absolutely vital that these services continue. The Deputy has that assurance. There are mechanisms in place that need to be gone through. We need to wait for the result of the ballot on Monday and see where we are from there. However, our commitment to ensure these services continue is clear.