Dáil debates

Tuesday, 23 May 2023

Ceisteanna - Questions

Cabinet Committees

4:30 pm

Photo of Alan DillonAlan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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27. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [21424/23]

Photo of Cathal CroweCathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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28. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22441/23]

Photo of Michael MoynihanMichael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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29. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22446/23]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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30. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22482/23]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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31. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22484/23]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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32. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22822/23]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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33. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22825/23]

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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34. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22862/23]

Photo of Gary GannonGary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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35. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on a Humanitarian Response to Ukraine will next meet. [22918/23]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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36. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on a humanitarian response to Ukraine will next meet. [22922/23]

Photo of Marc Ó CathasaighMarc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I ask Members to be very brief and to the point on this round.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 27 to 36, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on the humanitarian response to Ukraine and migration last met on Thursday, 4 May. The next meeting will take place shortly. This committee, which I chair, works to ensure a co-ordinated approach to the State’s humanitarian response for people arriving from Ukraine who have sought temporary protection here. The Government’s co-ordinated response to the humanitarian crisis is extensive. Ireland has never seen so many people arrive in such a short timeframe. Since the start of the war, more than 83,000 people have arrived from Ukraine and availed of temporary protection in Ireland. To date, Ireland has accommodated 84,000 people in State-sourced accommodation. These are mostly people who have fled here from Ukraine and people seeking international protection.

In light of the acute and growing pressures in the face of continuing arrivals, the Government is continuing to maximise the pace and scale of sourcing suitable accommodation. All Departments and agencies, as well as local government, are working to co-ordinate the State’s humanitarian response at a national and local level. The State’s overall response to current demand pressures includes continuing the unoccupied homes campaign, providing pledged accommodation, preparing installation of rapid-build new homes on suitable sites and accelerating the refurbished buildings programme, which now includes consideration of commercial properties and sites for development, refurbishment or purchase, and the use of alternative modular buildings.

In addition to meetings of the Cabinet committee, I have regular engagements with Ministers at Cabinet and individually to discuss matters of concern to their Departments. Work is also ongoing across Government to intensify communications and community engagement on the humanitarian response. The Government is keeping our response to all aspects of this humanitarian crisis, in particular accommodation options, under continuous review.

4:40 pm

Photo of Cathal CroweCathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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As I said during an earlier contribution, we in County Clare are very proud of the response we have made over the past 16 or so months in providing refugee accommodation. There has been a sea change in the approach on the ground, from an official point of view, over recent months. Twelve months ago, there were boots on the ground from many Government agencies, which were co-ordinating this very well and sharing a lot of very useful information. There was huge public buy-in.

If we fast forward to last week and the situation at Magowna House, the level of information that came to us as elected representatives and to the public was absolutely reprehensible. What was most striking of all was that the director of service at Clare County Council, who is a fantastic official and was appointed to lead out this response in the county, knew nothing whatsoever about it. Last night, a similar situation unfolded in the beautiful north Clare town of Corrofin, where there was a belief that another centre was opening. Again, there was no information and there was a protest and a counterprotest. Today, it transpired there was no contract on either side.

As elected representatives, we are very much firefighting. All we need is a decent set of information out there. Some people will like that and some will not but there needs to be better engagement. The director of service at the council who is co-ordinating this should know at all times what is going on. It is not his fault. Someone in the Department is not doing their job.

Photo of Michael MoynihanMichael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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On the Taoiseach's reference in his response to the 84,000 people who have come in and for whom the State has provided shelter, what engagement have State agencies had with people who have come in, and are willing to work or participate, in the context of the labour shortage right across sectors? Will the Taoiseach give us an update on that, please?

Photo of Sorca ClarkeSorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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What is the Taoiseach's response to the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service study finding that the operational costs for commercially owned refugee centres are nearly twice as high as those provided by the State, and to the review's finding that congregated settings for refugees will continue for many years to come? The paper on international protection support services estimates a 10% to 15% increase in the number of arrivals over the next 18 months. The European directive for Ukrainian refugees may be in place for another two years. We have a broken direct provision service but what is also now rapidly emerging is an almost two-tier immigration system. In fairness, past and present governments failed to meet that deepening crisis on both fronts. We urgently need to see an operational plan to invest, operationalise and build sustainable accommodation pathways, workforce planning for local health services and schools, and a multi-annual systemic community support scheme. We need that urgently. This cannot wait. The need is growing by the minute in our communities, yet the capacity to take on additional services simply is not there.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It was an absolute disgrace to leave hundreds of asylum seekers vulnerable under tents on the streets. I welcome the proposal to look at the issue of empty buildings, something for which we have called for a long time, including office buildings that are not being used. I draw the Taoiseach's attention to the fact there is an empty office block on Setanta Place, just off Kildare Street, which has been sitting empty - I think it is a Government building - around the corner from Leinster House. It is several storeys high. We should investigate, as a matter of urgency, whether that could be repurposed.

The community recognition fund to support communities that are welcoming and assisting the integration of asylum seekers is a very good idea. What is not so good is we have maxed out on the money coming out from it. That fund should be immediately replenished so money is available to get in ahead of time to support community groups and organisations that are willing to assist in the integration of asylum seekers or Ukrainian refugees.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I spoke earlier on the Ukrainian action briefing I had the pleasure of hosting today. I am very grateful to the members of Ukrainian Action in Ireland who gave us an overview of the findings of their second national survey. It is very welcome to see just how well the majority of Ukrainian people here are doing and how integrated they are. Nearly a quarter of those who responded to the survey are now in employment and many more are actively seeking work. However, the housing issue remains a huge challenge for members of the Ukrainian community and those who come here seeking refuge from other countries.

I raised the issue earlier of the need for a more co-ordinated Government approach and greater co-ordination, in particular, in the search for and repurposing of office accommodation. I welcome that. Offices in my constituency are sitting idle, as are other vacant buildings, including Jurys Hotel, Baggot Street hospital and the Seamark office block. These are premises that could be constructively used to provide housing.

Who is leading out on the promised provision of modular homes for refugees? We were originally told that 700 units would be ready by Easter. We have not seen any evidence of that.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Does the Taoiseach agree with the Garda Commissioner's statement that the far right is not growing? How does that statement tally with the reality of what we have experienced, over the past couple of weeks in particular? A man in his 70s is in hospital after being assaulted at one of these blockades at Corrofin in Clare. We know of tents of asylum seekers being burned, with some of those involved in the protests alleging they had an agreement with the Garda to go in to clear them. The left, and People Before Profit in particular, is being targeted, with our meetings disrupted, our activists intimidated and us being threatened. There are blockades in different parts of the country. We have a situation where, as far I understand, members of an Garda were present when buses were boarded to count people going out and a reference was then made to some sort of right to protest. Is the Garda Commissioner dealing with the real world if he is just ignoring the reality of quite troubling things that are happening in our country?

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach give some sort of information on what we are hearing regarding the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, talking about flotels being used to house refugees? I was going to ask what engagement happens on ensuring we have the resources from an education and health perspective across the board but, on hearing about that, it takes precedence.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I again thank Deputies for their questions. On the issue of communications, information and engaging with communities, I reassure the House that work is ongoing across Government to intensify and improve communications and community engagement. We should not forget that 84,000 people have been provided with State accommodation in the past year in more than 100 different centres throughout the country. Most of the time, that has worked well. There has been information, communications and broad acceptance by local communities. We acknowledge, however, that in some places it could have been better. County Clare is one of those places where it could have been better in recent weeks. We appreciate that understanding and listening to communities are essential as we accommodate people in communities across the country.

My Department, the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, and other relevant Departments and stakeholders are developing a more effective method of sharing information with communities. That work is nearing completion. A tender has been issued to assist in this work and is currently being reviewed. The new model will be implemented as soon as possible. Separate to that, party leaders met last evening and confirmed that the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, and his Department are free to hire additional staff to support him and the Department in their work in engaging with communities.

On the right to work, which was raised by Deputies, and I am conscious we now have labour shortages across the board in Ireland, Ukrainian people, as they are beneficiaries of temporary protection, have the right to work immediately as long as they get a personal public service, PPS, number. Approximately 15,000 are already working. It is different for international protection, IP, applicants. We need to be careful in that regard. Unless a person has been refused permission to stay, he or she can apply for a work permit. I think such an application can now be made after six months. It used to be nine months and used to be impossible. We have a real reluctance in easing that any further because it could be a major pull factor for thousands more people to come to the country and claim international protection. Many people who claim international protection are fleeing war and persecution but many are not. Many are economic migrants who came here and applied for international protection when they ought to have applied for a work permit or work visa but did not. We have to be honest about that, which means making sure that decisions are made quickly and work permits are not issued too easily because that would be a pull factor.

That is something we need to avoid.

As I have said before, when it comes to migration we must be fair and firm in the context of work permits and visas for people who come to work and ensuring that those who come as refugees are treated well, get the opportunities they deserve and are protected. We must also be firm with people who do not follow our rules-based system. We have rules and we will enforce them. We will try to speed up decisions both in favour of and against applicants. When decisions are made against applicants, we want to see more deportation orders. We want people to have confidence that the rules will be applied and implemented.

I am not aware of the office block nearby, but I will let the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, and his team know that it is a possibility and should be looked at.

On the community recognition fund, €50 million was allocated last week. It has been well received. I have asked the relevant Ministers to look into the possibility of a second round in a few months' time.

Deputy Bacik asked who is in charge of modular homes. It is the OPW, which is part of the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donovan, is specifically working on that. The first one will be available next month. That is a further example of the cross-Government effort to help with the refugee crisis. The OPW, which is neither a part of the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage nor the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, is working to provide accommodation to people coming from overseas.

It is impossible for me to say whether the far-right is growing. I do not think it is growing in the context of political support. I might be wrong. Perhaps the Garda Commissioner was referring to that or perhaps to the number of protests or to the number of people turning up at those protests, but I do not have those figures to hand.

4:50 pm

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What is the position with hotels?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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They are under consideration, but that is all.