Dáil debates

Wednesday, 17 May 2023

Central Statistics Office Sexual Violence Survey 2022: Statements (Resumed)

 

3:22 pm

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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This is obviously a very sensitive area and one which, judging by the report's findings, has clearly affected the lives of a significant number of people. The survey reports that 52% of women and 28% of men reported experiencing sexual violence in their lifetime. It must be noted that the definition of sexual violence in this survey is quite broad, as flagged in the report. When one thinks of violence we may naturally think of physical encounters. The statistics collected in the report encompass a wider range of behaviours. Sexual violence is defined in the report as any sexual act that takes place without freely given consent or where someone forces or manipulates someone else into unwanted sexual activity. This sexual activity does not have to be physical in nature.

Consent is a key aspect of any sexual activity and the absence of consent is what gives rise to this prevalence of unwanted sexual activity. Many efforts have been made in schools in recent years to help explain and educate young people in the area of healthy and positive relationships, particularly in the area of consent. The work of schools is not enough and we cannot expect schools to be the only place where the notion of consent is promoted. It must be promoted throughout society to make as many people as possible aware of the dos and don'ts of consent. The importance of good communication between partners ensures understanding about sex and physical closeness and helps to ensure that those involved feel comfortable and safe about what is happening and most importantly that the person giving consent is in a competent state whereby they can give consent freely and clearly. The figures from the study related to people who reported a lack of consent, particularly among those aged between 25 and 34, is quite concerning. It shows that more work needs to be done on raising awareness and understanding of what consent is and how it is best communicated.

Another issue that might be contributing to some of the issues raised in the survey is that of drink spiking. It is not a new thing but it is something that needs to be punished more seriously. Campaigns have been run to try to make people more aware of the signs that indicate a drink has been spiked and to encourage people to be more careful in terms of leaving their drinks unattended. One such campaign was run by my local second-level school, Ramsgrange Community School. The transition year students brought their report to Leinster House for the Taoiseach to read. It was left in the Taoiseach's pigeonhole. Unfortunately that was over a year ago and no response has been received. Perhaps the Minister of State might have a look at this.

It has been reported that in 2022, 106 instances of drink spiking were reported to the Garda. This compares to just 22 reports in 2021. This shows either a major increase in drink spiking, a major increase in the willingness of people to report it or, perhaps, a combination of both. The Ministers, Deputy Harris and Deputy McEntee, launched an awareness campaign at the end of 2021. The HSE is doing some good work in this area. However, there also needs to be a joined-up approach in terms of the way such issues are dealt with by the Garda and other arms of our legal system.

Are our laws tight enough? Are they suitable? Do we need tougher punishments for those found guilty? Does the Garda have the resources available to deal with such crimes? We heard very concerning reports from 2021 of a large number of domestic violence calls going unanswered by gardaí. There were more than 3,000 in fact. I hope in the two years since then that the cause of the problem has been investigated thoroughly and that procedures are in place to ensure every domestic violence call is dealt with and given the seriousness it deserves. People who contact the Garda or any support service for any sort of violence but especially domestic or sexual violence have shown great courage and bravery in doing so. They need to have confidence that the issue is being treated in a sensitive and suitable manner.

I will quote what the Children's Ombudsman Dr. Niall Muldoon said in the media. He said the State must invest in youngsters who are committing sexual crimes. He said there is a lack of therapeutic services in this country, which is a real issue. He said the State needs to invest in children who are sexually violent if they are going to have a chance to turn their lives around. He further stated that children were committing sexual crimes long before widespread access to the Internet and pornography but that there were no therapeutic services to help underage abusers.

These comments came after an annual report by the Office of the Children's Ombudsman said the issue of sexual violence between children in schools featured in a number of complaints last year. In one case a secondary school girl had been made to feel the sexual abuse was her fault after she brought it to the attention of teachers. Speaking at the launch of this report yesterday, Dr. Muldoon said he felt that sexual violence between children needed to be better understood as the State was currently ignoring the cohort of children. He said that we need to work with young people who are carrying it out and obviously with children who have suffered at the hands of that abuse. He states his office has raised this issue with the Department of Education and recommended that it be addressed as part of the new anti-bullying policy. In short, I hope this can be addressed as a matter of urgency because there is not much point in having an Ombudsman if we are not going to listen to what he has to say.

Photo of Alan FarrellAlan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this important matter. I welcome the report and the relevant remarks from the Ministers who spoke at length earlier. The data compiled by the Central Statistics Office provides a stark insight into the prevalence of sexual violence in our country. The data reveals the extent to which people of all ages continue to encounter sexual violence and live with the aftermath of those experiences. I commend the CSO for carrying out this research, which will provide valuable data with regard to tackling sexual violence in Ireland and inform resources of our survivor support services. In particular I thank the very brave men and women who engaged with the CSO in this survey who reported incidents of sexual violence, some for the first time. I thank them for their candour in what I expect will have been a very difficult experience in recounting these attacks.

In the report the CSO has detailed some very shocking statistics that show the scale of this issue. Among these statistics is the reporting that 52% of women in Ireland have experienced some form of sexual violence in their lifetime. This is also true of 28% of men. The 52% of women is a figure that we have known for some time. Regrettably the numbers are not heading in the right direction. This is of particular concern. In total four in ten adults reported experiencing sexual violence in their lifetime. One in five people reported experiencing unwanted contact as a child and a similar number experienced unwanted non-sexual contact as a child. Less than half of the adults who experienced sexual violence told someone about it.

I have spoken several times in the House about the prevalence of sexual violence in our society. The historical silence on this phenomenon is well known. As a society we turned a blind eye to abuse and chose instead to avoid the pain and discomfort of addressing the issue, often compounding the pain of survivors by doing so. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle in particular has known very much about this in the years she has been a Member.

We must remain cognisant that this is not an issue confined to history. Instead sexual violence is an issue that we must strive every day to eliminate from our communities. The CSO survey shows that young people are much more likely to speak out about sexual violence than those aged 65 and over. The stigma for many, regardless of age however, remains a barrier to their well-being and to the well-being of our society.

To tackle the prevalence of sexual violence in Ireland will require continued efforts from successive Governments. It requires a number of Departments to work together to achieve the collective goal of eradicating sexual violence. I am encouraged by the work of the Government and I commend the Minister, Deputy Harris, in particular for his efforts in this regard and, of course, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, for her considerable efforts, along with quite a number of those whom I shall call "players" for the purposes of this discussion in the House and in various committees, who have made valuable contributions to this ongoing debate. I stress in particular the cross-party efforts that have gone into the third iteration of the national strategy, which is worth mentioning in the context of what we all trying to achieve.

The strategy that was put forward earlier this year, that is, the third iteration of the national strategy for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, sets out a target of zero tolerance, with €363 million in funding for public awareness campaigns and the establishment of a statutory agency for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, which I understand is to be operational by 1 January 2024. I should note, as a member of the Oireachtas justice committee, that this particular matter is coming before us very shortly and I look forward to working with colleagues of all parties and none to get it back to the Minister as quickly as we can so work can start. The updated primary and secondary school curricula are to include consent, which I sincerely hope will be transformative towards the collective goal of zero tolerance. There is also an updated strategy on coercive control, domestic violence and safe use of the Internet, as well as regular research to manage and monitor the prevalence of these issues in Ireland to facilitate change, to name but a few of the issues. I believe these measures are among the great number of initiatives that will break down barriers and begin to turn the tide of the prevalence of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence in the State.

Education is one of the key components of our battle with sexual violence. I am pleased to see the ongoing work of the Minister, Deputy Harris, with regard to mandatory consent courses within the universities and higher education settings. This is a very important step and we must ensure that all students engage with these courses and have access to them. We know from prior reports that sexual violence on our campuses has been an issue that was overlooked for many years. I believe that under this Government, we are taking the necessary steps to make that change. However, education on sexual violence cannot be the preserve of higher education settings and it is something that must be introduced to wider society. That, of course, includes our primary and secondary schools, where students must be aware of the risks of online abuse and in-person abuse, and how they can mitigate risks and build confidence that support is available to people of all ages. The absence of this kind of information in education results in a feeling that these incidents are not something to be talked about and that the person is somehow responsible for them. I know that is something that has been ever-present in our society. However, there is always somebody to talk to. If anybody is listening to this contribution, he or she should know there is always somebody he or she can talk to, trust and confide in to help to get through what is a horrifying experience for many.

I also believe the absence of this education at a young age results in many young people turning to the Internet or to their peers for education. The information found online can vary wildly and can pose a direct challenge to providing comprehensive sexual education to young people. The Internet also has the ability to set unhealthy attitudes towards women and sexual activity. This is something we must tackle if we are to create a healthy and realistic approach to sexual activity. Seeking information from peers comes with the caveat that it might be inappropriate, incomplete or completely wrong, so we must always try to make sure our education system, classrooms and schools are adequately resourced and trained to provide the necessary information to young people.

Again, I stress that this is not something that can be left to educational settings alone. Public awareness campaigns can play an important role in this effort and we have seen recent campaigns supported by the zero tolerance strategy, which I believe can change minds and attitudes within our adult population. It also makes clear to survivors that the authorities are on their side and it breaks down the stigma associated with sexual violence.

Moreover, in order to have a sustainable approach with regard to tackling the prevalence of sexual violence, we will also need to provide adequate and ongoing resourcing to the Garda Síochána and the Courts Service. I welcome the improvements that have been made to boost and support the work of An Garda Síochána. This is key to ensuring that gardaí have the time to complete sensitivity training and, importantly, time to engage with those who need help the most. Similarly, timely access to justice within our courts system is vital to fostering public confidence that survivors will be able to obtain justice without significant or undue delay and that we have a system that is modern, responsive and supportive.

It would be remiss of me not to note the very significant work of the Government in ensuring that the access to justice issue is addressed through the recent report that was published, which is very helpful, not just to the Minister for Justice but to the entire House in terms of what we have to do collectively to break down barriers and to make sure people can get seen before the law as quickly as possible. There are so many complex cases across the spectrum of the courts, where there are extraordinary delays, quite frankly, as well as the hangover from Covid. The timing of that is very important in the context of this debate.

In conclusion, the survey published by the CSO shows the scale of the challenge with regard to sexual violence. These types of reports are vital tools in the planning and development of legislation and initiatives that can make a real difference to the lives of many and in time, hopefully, prevent sexual violence in the future. I am not, however, under any illusion as to the scale of this challenge. We must change cultural attitudes, build public confidence, build support throughout each stage of a survivor's journey and more. I look forward to my ongoing work with the Minister for Justice to achieve these goals and build stronger and safer communities in Ireland for everyone.

3:32 pm

Photo of Kathleen FunchionKathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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I am glad to get the opportunity to speak on this issue. While the evidence in the document is shocking and depressing, for want of a better word, it is important that we have that information and that we now act on that information. I acknowledge some of the steps that have been taken by the Ministers, Deputy Harris and Deputy McEntee. In particular, the Minister, Deputy McEntee, has really taken this on and we were lucky to have her in Kilkenny to visit the Amber Women's Refuge.

There is so much that I always want to say on this topic but I will try to confine my remarks to the issue of under-reporting. We have to ask ourselves why there is such a high level of under-reporting. We know there is a fear and that some ask whether people will believe them. People know they are going to be asked questions but they wonder if they are going to be asked so many questions that they will start questioning themselves. There is a sense of guilt that some people have which they should not have, but they think “Should I have done something different?” or “Did I somehow bring this upon myself?” All of that leads to under-reporting.

Then, when somebody does take the very brave step to go in and report, it is important that they are met with the correct attitude. This is where I want to pay tribute to the protective services units in the Garda Síochána. We are very lucky to have an excellent protective services unit in Kilkenny, which works really well, often in collaboration with Amber Women's Refuge. We need to examine where that system is working around the country to see if we can replicate that because the units nearly serve as a one-stop shop for people, although that is not necessarily their role. We know from the survey that 78% of all people - men and women - who have experienced sexual violence know the person, so it is often more than just reporting the case to the Garda and there are often legal implications if the person is, for example, seeking a safety order or a protection order. All of that is such a minefield and they are dealing with all of the emotional aspects as well, so it can be very difficult. All of that leads to under-reporting. We need to make it as streamlined as possible, which is why we need to see additional resources being given to the protective services units. While they work well, they definitely need more resources and they would welcome those resources. That is a crucial part of this.

There are areas where we do not have Garda protective services units. Such units need to be available to all people because it totally changes their experience. I know anecdotally from constituents that the level of understanding and empathy is very different when people come across members of the Garda who are sufficiently trained.

I want to touch briefly on the issue of refuge spaces. I know it is a little different but the issues are very much linked.

I am disappointed that we have not seen more work done to provide refuge spaces. We do have an excellent refuge, as I said, but it covers both Carlow and Kilkenny. Carlow really does need its own stand-alone refuge.

I also want to touch on the point made in the report of the Ombudsman for Children to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child that insufficient attention is being given to the issue of children affected by domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. That is something that we need to bear in mind.

I want to pay tribute to Safe Ireland and the Rape Crisis Centre for all of the work they have done to create more awareness and for all of the supports they provide for victims as well as for people like us, as public representatives. In this role, when we are dealing with people in difficult situations, we always want to make sure we are giving them the correct advice. Unlike a lot of other sectors that we talk about, there are some really good and common-sense solutions coming from this sector, from those that work with the women, predominantly, who are in these situations and a small amount of additional resources could mean an awful lot. At the risk of repeating myself, one of the key elements is the protective services units in An Garda Síochána. Where those units are working well, we need to ensure that they have adequate resources, including the correct number of gardaí and administration staff. Where we do not have such units, we need to ensure that Garda stations are given the resources to set them up because they can be the key difference in terms of people coming forward or not.

3:42 pm

Photo of Michael CollinsMichael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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It is now a major emerging issue that the added presence of biological males in women's prisons, for example, can lead to an increased risk of sexual violence against women. Transgender women who have not undergone sex reassignment surgery or hormone therapy still have male genitalia and may pose a threat to female inmates in prisons. This can be a serious concern for the safety of female prisoners, who may be vulnerable to sexual assault or harassment. Similarly, in women's changing rooms, bathrooms and other spaces that are designated for women only, the presence of biological males can make women feel extremely uncomfortable or even threatened. Women have a right to privacy and safety in these spaces and the inclusion of biological males can compromise those rights. It is important to highlight these growing risks and concerns in the overall context of this debate today. It is important to acknowledge and address these concerns to ensure that the rights of all individuals are protected. This raises two major questions for the Government that have not yet been answered. First, what measures is the Government taking to ensure the safety and privacy of women in sex-segregated spaces such as bathrooms, changing rooms, women's prisons and shelters, particularly in light of the increasing presence of biological males who identify as transgender in these spaces? Second, how is the Government addressing the concerns around the potential increase in sexual violence against women in these spaces?

In the past week, one particular case of sexual violence, which I will not mention specifically here, gained much coverage in both national and local media across the country. In that context, it is important to note that allegations of sexual violence are a serious matter and should be taken seriously. Survivors of sexual violence often face significant barriers to coming forward such as fear of retribution, victim-blaming and stigma. It is essential that allegations of sexual violence are investigated thoroughly and impartially and that survivors are provided with the support and resources they need to heal and recover.

Another issue is sexual education in schools about which a lot of parents in this country have major concerns and many have been in contact with me about it. They are concerned about very young children being sexually educated. I too have very serious concerns about this and would like a debate on the issue going forward.

Photo of Carol NolanCarol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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The findings of the CSO survey are, in many respects, deeply depressing, particularly for women and girls. They reveal a culture and society plagued by sexual violence, even at the upper end of the scale in terms of rape and non-consensual sexual contact. The survey also reveals that as a society, we have a long way to go in terms of normalising the reporting of non-consensual sexual experiences by men. It is striking that only 5% of men reported such experiences over the course of their lifetime.

Returning to the CSO survey, I note the finding that the majority of adults, that is, 78%, who experienced sexual violence at least one time in their lives knew the perpetrator, with very little difference between women, at 79% and men, at 75%. I want to place this firmly in the context of domestic violence and the appalling lack of services in my own constituency. If we are going to categorise domestic violence as physical and emotional harm against women, then the failure of this Government and previous Governments to provide women's refuge places means that a significant proportion of the blame lies at the Government's door. The lack of a women's domestic violence in Offaly and Laois for the past number of years is totally unacceptable. Women have nowhere to go and endure terrible violence.

I also want to state that if we are going to talk about violence against women, then we cannot exclude the role that something like telemedicine can play in subjecting women to forced or coerced abortions. The HSE itself implicitly acknowledged this in a reply to a parliamentary question, when it conceded that meeting the woman in person increases the likelihood of the provider identifying any coercion or domestic abuse. Such coercion is a form of violence against women and their unborn children.

Photo of Michael Healy-RaeMichael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I wish to start by thanking a number of people. I want to thank people like Ms Vera O'Leary and her staff, the excellent people who work in the Kerry Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre and who have given guidance, help and assistance to people in different types of distress over the decades. I also want to thank the people in the ADAPT refuge in Kerry and all the people who work in the services. I also want to thank members of An Garda Síochána for the kindness they show to people at times of trauma in their lives after sexual violence. Members of the Garda are at the coalface of that on many occasions and the Minister for Justice can be proud of their record in County Kerry in the work they do. I commend them on that.

Very sadly, over the years, as a local and then as a national representative, I have come across victims of different types of sexual assault and encounters that were horrific. Dealing with the aftermath of that is a traumatic experience for everybody involved. One thing that I must say is that we seem be in a race to the bottom. What I mean by that is that it seems be a case of anything goes in society now. We have a situation where we put toilets in schools but we will not put boys or girls' signs on them. That, to me, is insanity. I believe that when a young girl or a young lady starting out in life goes to a bathroom, it should be a place of refuge and safety, where there are only girls inside. That is what I truly believe and the same applies to boys. When boys are in a bathroom, there should be nobody but boys in there. That is my belief and nothing will change it. I am very sorry if I am offending anybody when I say that but that is the way I feel about it. I want us to be teaching young people in schools about mechanics, cars, and safety on our roads. We have all the time for sex but no time for teaching people about motor cars.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I too thank the CSO for the very stark figures that we have before us. I also want to thank the people in Cuan Saor refuge in Clonmel and in the rape crisis centres around the country who have done so much valuable work. I also thank the members of the Garda, who help where they can and everyone else involved. As Deputy Healy-Rae has just said, we are talking about very traumatic situations. That said, I know of situations of coercive control by members of An Garda Síochána that I have brought to the attention of the Minister for Justice previously. I know of people who have gone to gardaí expecting and requiring support and there is one lady in particular in Wicklow that I would like the Minister to meet. I asked the Minister previously to meet her. Her name is Lisa Temple. She was subjected to abuse, although thankfully not sexual abuse. She was subjected to all kinds of threats and abuse and coercive control by a member of An Garda Síochána and got no support. I support gardaí in what they do around the country but there are bad apples. I met another woman recently from Rathfarnham in Dublin. There is an appalling list-----

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Do not mention names Deputy.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I am not mentioning their names. I mentioned one name that the Minister is already aware of. There is an appalling list of failures by An Garda Síochána. The woman was terrorised out of her home.

I also have a problem with the sexualisation of children in our schools, in mathematics, geography and history classes. There is a space for relationships and sexuality education, RSE, but what is going on is not on. People will come in here and describe us as homophobes who are anti-this, that and the other, but we are standing up for values that have stood us well in this country. As Deputy Healy-Rae said, there is a rush to a position of anything goes in schools. We have trans toilets and all of these issues going on. I am aware of a school where a person has identified as a cat and the whole school has to be changed. We need to cop ourselves on, get a hold of ourselves here and stand up for our morals and rights.

I will not take any lectures from people in here on the hard left who want to lecture us every day, calling us far right and God knows what they do not call us. I stand for my beliefs and they have stood us well always.

3:52 pm

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
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I thank all the rape crisis centres that deal with these people who are sexually abused, the Garda Síochána and all the other entities that assist. Looking at the statistics from the CSO figures, they show that 53% of women come forward and only 34% of men. Child sexual violence affects one in four children. That is huge. It is beyond belief to me. I see that 8% of people over the age of 65 reported that they had experienced sexual violence as a child and as an adult. I also looked at statistics on the under-reporting of the issues. People wonder why there is such under-reporting of sexual violence. Has the mobile phone got anything to do with it?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I think so, yes.

Photo of Richard O'DonoghueRichard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
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It probably has a lot to do with it because it is judge and jury in a lot of cases. People can run off and make up their own minds on different things and highlight people in a different way. They are afraid then to report it because they have already been judged online. That to me is a significant issue. We can see things coming up on social media now, and people saying "did you hear this, such a person has died, such a person has done something." We hear the following day that it was only a false article. Worldwide we are looking at these things, stories about people in big positions who are said to have passed away, and next thing we find out it is false. This is a huge issue in reporting and it should also be tackled within the system.

Photo of Jennifer Murnane O'ConnorJennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. I agree with the previous speaker, as did the Minister. The results of the CSO survey are shocking but I think we all know that there are more under-reported numbers and that the numbers we have had up to now definitely did not reflect the true extent of the problem. This report really highlights the importance of having a whole-of-government, zero tolerance approach to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence as set out in the ambitious third national strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. We need a whole-of-society approach in tackling this. We can begin locally and work nationally.

I am passionate about securing a women's refuge for Carlow and delighted that agencies have expressed interest in finding and developing a refuge. The task group in Carlow is liaising with Tusla this week and is also working with Carlow County Council to identify a suitable location. I would like to see a proposed site identified and am also looking for assistance from the Department and the HSE on this. I wrote to the Minister in particular because the HSE has a really good site in Carlow town. I wrote to the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, and I also wrote and spoke to the Minister, Deputy Harris, about this. We really have to work on this. I am very dedicated to it as is the team I am working with now.

Carlow County Council with Focus Ireland and Carlow Women's Aid have four safe houses operational right now as family units for short-term, temporary support accommodation. I am sure the Minister is aware of this. These units are available to families that are escaping domestic violence or families that are very vulnerable. They also recently commenced eight own-front-door units purchased through the capital assistance scheme, CAS, by Kilkenny Voluntary Housing Association. These units will be available to families on a short-term basis. Since January 2022, despite the housing challenges, the local authority and a local network which I am working with have built up a network of property to support vulnerable families. The three Focus Ireland properties alone have supported nine families and out of them seven have gone on to secure their own permanent accommodation, following intense supports being provided. I know from working with them that Carlow County Council has really worked hard to try to keep children in particular away from emergency accommodation. That is so important.

The nearest refuge to Carlow is Amber. They do an absolutely excellent job there and I can only compliment them and their team. For a Carlow family with children to move to Kilkenny, the children cannot go to school because they cannot come up and down every day. With that, the wrap-around services, it brings huge challenges to the families. While we have an excellent refuge in Kilkenny, it is important that we have our own one in Carlow. That is something I am really passionate about. This summer we will have a firm plan to bring a refuge to Carlow. I thank the Minister on this as he has been working with us. The support he and his Department have given us has been absolutely excellent. I really want to compliment him on that. We are hoping to get the building quite soon, hopefully once we find a site. As I said, we are working with Carlow County Council to find a building. Wrap-around supports are going to be so important. It is so important that we do appreciate the work that is being done. It is happening in Kilkenny as well. In Carlow we have Carlow Women's Aid, Amber, Focus Ireland, Kilkenny Voluntary Housing Association, the HSE, Tusla, An Garda Síochána, Barnardos, the family resource centre and St. Catherine's. It is hugely important to us that no family in Carlow every feels they are being ignored. Working with Carlow County Council, they are also so supportive of all the services. Like other Deputies, my door is always open. I welcome that we are looking at the building and hope the Minister might be able to address this at the end. Timing is going to be crucial to get a women's refuge built in Carlow. This is not just about the bricks and mortar. It is about the wrap-around services. We need a site location but we also need to build a national domestic violence agency. We need to look at that. We are all committed and the Minister has been so supportive about the funding. At local level, we need to start as soon as possible. It is absolutely imperative that we have proper staffing and people who have the experience. All the agencies I have mentioned have done an excellent job.

I would like to ask the Minister about communication and maybe timing. I am working with victims at the moment. I am really not in a position to tell them our timescale is this or we need to move on it quickly. I am saying there is good work being done by the Government. I ask that we try to communicate more, even for us as Deputies, so that we are able to say where we are now. There is no question that we are moving. I just believe that we need to move a lot more quickly. It is about wrap-around supports as well. When someone goes into a refuge, there needs to be a strategic plan for what is called an exit. If someone is in a refuge and needs to exit that refuge, there needs to be support such as a house a family can go into and all the wrap-around supports. That keeps coming to me all the time. People are afraid to leave their own homes because where would they go? These are the unreported cases that I work with. Where do they go and how would they get supports? I know there are nine counties in Ireland that do not have a women's refuge. I ask the Minister for some sort of communication or information campaign. I know we have to be careful in how we deal with this, but even for us dealing with victims, I ask that we would have a list of things we could mention, to say this is the way we should do it or this is the way the Department is doing it.

I am aware we must be careful in how we handle this. We must be careful about how much information we give out. Like previous speakers, I am a firm believer education is the key to this. We need to see how we address this through education. Besides the women, children or men in that situation, their families are so affected as well. This has a huge knock-on effect on families.

This crosses different Departments, including the Departments with responsibility for housing and health, as well as the Minister's Department. I accept the involvement of different Departments brings challenges, but having worked with the Minister and with the other Departments, the Minister's commitment is absolutely appreciated. The people I am speaking to and the agencies I am working with are saying the Minister and the Departments have been working hard to get this. There are challenges, but it is about getting these refuges built as soon as possible, as well as communication, information and education. I can only thank the Minister. I have spoken to him several times and he has been so supportive, which I really appreciate.

4:02 pm

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I might begin on refuge spaces, as they were an issue that came up throughout the debate. Deputies Murnane O'Connor, Funchion and many others across the House raised them. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle raised the issue with me on oral questions and I have an update to send to her trying to provide this detail.

There are quite a few issues here, but two important ones. One is to map out where we are going with refuge spaces. All that has been done now and we know the priority locations. There has been work done by the Department on identifying a lead local organisation for each of them. That is being progressed. There has also been much work done on the acquisition of sites. I am happy to share that and share it widely. I will come back to what is beyond that in a moment, but it is an important issue. On the second issue, Deputy Murnane O'Connor is correct to say there are many moving parts in this. I do not mean that flippantly or in a smart way. We work at a national level and with local organisations. We need planning permission and we need tenders. I undertake to look at how we can begin to communicate the steps between the idea of there needing to be a new refuge to the doors opening and how we can work with local groups to make it as straightforward as possible. There has been good progress, with a number of sites now underway and a lot done in terms of mapping. We are very committed to this. I am conscious of how important it is and I acknowledge that as well.

When I had to step out, I think a question was asked about where the familicide and domestic homicide report is. I have just finished a series of engagements with the families who fed into that report and it is my intention to publish that report this month. I hope to be in a position to bring that to Cabinet and publish it this month as well.

References were made to the Garda by Deputy Mattie McGrath and others. I do not want to have an argument, especially when the Deputy is not here, but it is important for anyone who has a complaint about any member of An Garda Síochána to know there is a way to raise it either with the organisation or with the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. That is a more appropriate way to do that than raising it on the floor of the Dáil.

I wish to be clear about the CSO Sexual Violence Survey 2022. The figures and statistics are distressing and shocking and while we knew we had a problem with domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, the day we do not find these figures shocking is the day we normalise them. We should be shocked. We should be stopped in our tracks at what these figures are telling us. A study like this means we often use terms like "baseline figures", we speak in percentages and speak about numbers. I am conscious the finding that 21% of women have reported non-consensual sexual intercourse does little to portray the impact each of those women have felt from such an abhorrent and vile act that has been perpetrated against them. Equally stark and upsetting is we learn from this study that the vast majority of these victims knew the person who did that to them. The perpetrator was presumably someone they once trusted. In the cases revealed of sexual violence carried out by an intimate partner, those acts were carried out by someone the victim must have cared about and perhaps loved at one point in their relationship. Such a violation of trust is reprehensible and such an act is utterly unacceptable. We cannot accept it, we do not accept it and I acknowledge the contributions from across the House on that.

It is absolutely clear we need to work together. There are moments where we should have robust debate in this House and of course the Government should be held to account on the delivery of our strategies and plans, but I believe this is an issue where everybody in this House, from all parties and none, support where we want to get to. We need to tackle these terrible crimes and reduce the level of them. We need to ensure all the necessary supports are in place so victims will feel safe and supported when they come forward to report. These are the central aims of the zero tolerance strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. This is a strategy that has been described by advocates, stakeholders and people who have worked their whole adult lives in this area as an extraordinarily ambitious strategy. No-one is doubting that. We have a really ambitious national plan, but now it is absolutely about delivery and implementation.

The actions in the strategy are across Departments and State agencies. This reflects the reality zero tolerance can be achieved only through a whole-of-society effort and that sexual and gender-based violence cannot be treated as a criminal justice issue alone. There is of course an important criminal justice element here, but there are other pieces too. I was taken by Deputy O'Donoghue's point about the mobile phone and the smartphone and how that has changed the access and perhaps consequently the cultural attitudes younger people might have towards sex, as well as how we as parents must deal with that reality. The smartphone is not going anywhere and technology is not going anywhere. Our children are growing up in a very different world. The ambitions set out in the strategy extend across society, from our schools to our homes to our workplaces and beyond. Zero tolerance means ensuring strategies aimed at preventing and combatting violence against women and against men also addresses the specific role of men and boys in particular in preventing violence against women. We need to be really clear on that. Zero tolerance means greater education, greater awareness to change attitudes and teaching respect. It means teaching our children equality, respect and healthy sexuality from a young age and at all levels of education.

I do not wish to be disagreeable about this, but I fundamentally disagree with some of the comments made in this House about sex education. When our children are educated in an age-appropriate way that is a good thing. When a teacher stands at the top of the classroom, that teacher gets asked questions and that teacher needs to be empowered to know how best to respond to those in an age-appropriate manner. That is ultimately what reform of SPHE is about. It is nothing to fear. Of course parents should be involved, consulted and informed all along, but it is about providing kids with the facts, in an age-appropriate way, to know that it is about respect, consent, inclusivity and tolerance. These are things we need to embed at a young age.

Zero tolerance also means organisations like An Garda Síochána and the Prisons Service must be exemplars. They must ensure there is zero tolerance within the organisations to inappropriate behaviour and that where a person is subjected to such behaviour, or indeed witnesses it, he or she is empowered to speak up. Where people do speak up they must be supported and the organisation must deal firmly with perpetrators.

I commend the Women of Honour on their courage, bravery and commitment in speaking about their experiences in the public arena to bring about change. I fully recognise the trauma and the distress suffered by all these victims of these heinous acts and welcome the commitments made by my colleague, the Tánaiste, on behalf of the Government in relation to a full and robust inquiry into these matters. I make it clear every sector, Department, agency and individual has a role to play in calling out and taking action against sexual violence. For our part, all Departments and all agencies will be required to have regard to the definition of domestic, sexual and gender-based violence as set out in the strategy when implementing actions under their remit. For example, the importance of education on consent is explicitly set out in the new strategy. It is essential we take a zero tolerance approach to ignorance or downplaying of the importance of consent in healthy sexual relationships. The strategy makes clear the importance of enhancing the understanding of children and young people of what consent is and what a healthy relationship looks like. We will do this through actions targeting education and schools and third-level institutions and awareness-raising for the general public.

Education and awareness-raising have played, and will continue to play, an important part in the Government's fight against sexual and gender-based violence. That continues with the zero tolerance strategy. It is also worth noting this strategy is a living document. Issues that have been highlighted by the CSO research can come into further consideration during the lifetime of the strategy and the annual action plans.

I encourage anyone who has been a victim of any kind of sexual assault, including within An Garda Síochána and the Prisons Service, to come forward. There are specialist Garda members in every division who are trained to ensure any victim presenting to the Garda is met with consistently high standards of specialist, sensitive, professional and expert assistance. Regardless of the circumstances in which sexual violence occurs, a victim of these horrific crimes should never, ever be concerned about reporting what has happened to them and seeking the help they need and the justice they deserve. That has to be a priority for this Government and we will continue to take a victim-centred approach to everything we do in this area, as is correct.

We have made a great deal of progress together. What the CSO sexual violence prevalence survey shows is that we have much more to do. Now more than ever, the full implementation of our third national strategy becomes an imperative. I look forward to working with all Deputies in that regard.