Dáil debates
Tuesday, 29 November 2022
Ceisteanna - Questions
Ukraine War
4:35 pm
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Ukraine will next meet. [54592/22]
Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [57658/22]
Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [57731/22]
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [57886/22]
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [57889/22]
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [58892/22]
Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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13. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [59149/22]
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [59160/22]
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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15. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on Ukraine will next meet. [59218/22]
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 15, inclusive, together. The Cabinet committee on accommodation and supports for Ukrainian refugees, which I chair, oversees the whole-of-government humanitarian response to supporting people from Ukraine who have sought temporary protection here. Membership of the Cabinet committee includes the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment; the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications and for Transport; the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage; the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth; the Minister for Social Protection; the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. Other Ministers and Ministers of State attend the Cabinet committee as required.
The numbers of people seeking temporary protection in Ireland as a consequence of the horrific war in Ukraine is unprecedented in the history of the State. Ireland has never seen so many people arrive in such a short timeframe and tens of thousands are receiving assistance. Since the start of this terrible war, over 65,000 people arriving from Ukraine have availed of temporary protection in Ireland. This equates to more than 1.2% of our population and compares very favourably with other European countries, demonstrating our solidarity with Ukraine and the rest of Europe in dealing with the crisis.
This level of response is challenging and absolutely unprecedented in the history of our State. Nevertheless, the Government is clear that, in the face of further arrivals, an approach that will bring greater consistency to the State's response and ensure equity for all those who rely on State supports is needed now as we continue to meet our obligations to those seeking protection here in Ireland. With this in mind, the Government agreed in October to the following measures: a doubling of the tax-free recognition payment from €400 to €800; a €50 million community fund to recognise local efforts; an expansion of rapid-build and accommodation refurbishment programmes; allowing for dormitory-style accommodation to maximise places; a new State-led call for vacant homes and a focus on future trends and planning for sustainable supports.
I will now outline the measures currently being progressed by the Government in order to provide additional accommodation. The property refurbishment programme is being expanded and accelerated and the process of compiling a searchable database of accommodation is beginning. The rapid-build housing programme has commenced with the first order of units already under way with the installation of 500 rapid-build homes by February and March 2023, providing accommodation for 2,000 people at a number of sites across the country. The new local authority-led Offer a Home campaign was successfully launched last week. This involves a doubling of the recognition payment to €800, irrespective of the nature of the offer of properties and accommodation.
The Government has also allocated €5 million to the Community Foundation for Ireland for the Ireland for Ukraine campaign. This is providing 50% of its funds to aid charities providing support on the ground and 50% to provide grant aid for Irish charities and community and voluntary organisations assisting people who have fled from the war to this country.
I acknowledge the tremendous contribution made by local communities in welcoming people from Ukraine. In recognition of such local, community-led solidarity, the Government has committed to a €50 million programme of supports, as I have said. Detailed proposals are currently being developed to provide additional resources at local level to ensure that access to public services and community centre facilities for local communities are maintained and expanded. Ireland's humanitarian response will continue. Policy work by various Departments is also continuing on an ongoing assessment of the sustainability of the initial emergency response. This work is also looking to the medium and longer-term issues. The Cabinet committee will meet again on 12 December.
Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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It was reported in The Irish Times yesterday that Dr. Catherine Day believes the Government's commitment to end direct provision by 2024 will not be met due to the pressures on emergency accommodation arising out of the war in Ukraine. It was also her view that the targets set out in the Housing for All plan need to be significantly increased to take into account the increase in population. The expert group headed up by Dr. Day has submitted a report to the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, recommending that the State build two reception centres on State-owned land by May and another four by the end of next year. Will that happen? Does the Taoiseach still believe that the Government will end direct provision by 2024 as currently committed to? Will the Housing for All targets be increased as Dr. Day has recommended?
Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Obviously, we all are in complete support of looking after those fleeing war or torture, whether from Ukraine or other places, which can be hellholes, throughout the world. We all accept that we must put serious effort into streamlining the means by which accommodation is made available. We need to ensure that communication is improved if we are to avoid repeats of some of the incidents that have taken place, including in Carlingford. People from outside have jumped on this issue, which is utterly reprehensible. These are things we need to fix. We have long had a serious issue with regard to direct provision and our processing. A great deal of streamlining needs to be done. This is what we have to do if we are to deliver for people.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The Taoiseach knows that we are completely opposed to Ireland's participation in the so-called military assistance mission of the EU to train the Ukrainian army. Training one side in a military conflict is a breach of military neutrality. This is part of a drive to integrate Ireland into a process of European militarisation and align Ireland with NATO. It is a full-spectrum military training mission whose purpose, according to the European Council, is "to contribute to enhancing the military capability of Ukraine’s Armed Forces". The Taoiseach has been at pains to emphasise that the Irish Defence Forces will be involved in de-mining training. However, during questions to the Minister for Defence last week, I asked for a guarantee that the Defence Forces would only be involved in de-mining and nothing else. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, repeatedly failed to give me that guarantee, saying that the details had not been finalised. Will the Taoiseach give me a guarantee that this is all he is sending Defence Forces troops to do?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is pretty clear that the Government is using the appalling war Putin launched in Ukraine, which we all condemn, to move us ever closer to NATO. Last week, I asked why NATO assessors were assessing Irish troops in County Cork-----
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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That is right.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----in recent weeks and I still have not heard an explanation. These assessors were headed up by a military commander of the US Navy. This follows on from our participation in the Ukraine defence contact group which, according to the US Secretary of Defence, is part of NATO and whose first meeting was held on a NATO base in Germany. It is absolutely clear that the Irish Government is disregarding this country's neutrality and the commitment of this majority of people in this country to that neutrality in order to align us with NATO to the extent that we now have NATO commanders assessing our troops in County Cork.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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As of yesterday, there were 3,459 Ukrainian refugees in County Clare. This represents approximately 3% of our county's entire population. In the early days, when refugees arrived in places like Doolin and Lisdoonvarna, they were given personal public service, PPS, numbers and staff from Intreo services and the Department of Social Protection came out to assess their skill sets, language skills and so on. This resulted in some getting into employment but there are many more who are hungry to work in Ireland. I met some of them yesterday. To give an example, we have several Ukrainian dentists in County Clare. Their qualifications do not align with Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, requirements so they cannot practice. It is the same with some nurses and doctors. We have a labour shortage in Clare, although it is hard to believe. I know of one butcher who had to apply for a work permit for a South African guy to come to work in his shop. There is more that can be done to activate these workers. I ask that, through this committee, the Taoiseach engage with Intreo and those providing accelerated training in reading and literacy skills to these Ukrainians to activate that labour force. They are hungry to work and contribute.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I call on Deputy Haughey.
Seán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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I am not scheduled to speak on this grouping.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I beg the Deputy's pardon; I am mixed up. I thank him for pointing that out. I have jumped from one to the other.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I believe I am next. As of today, 65,660 refugees have been granted temporary protection. We also have 12,347 applicants for international protection. We had 24 refugees at the airport facility last night. There is no sign of any levelling off. My concern relates to the accommodation situation, which is very challenging. This week, we have seen county councils appealing for unused houses to meet this need. Has a plan been put in place with local authorities to provide for staffing to get this work done?
Another issue, which I bring up constantly, is the quick build or the modular build, which would be across all local authorities and for everyone across the board. What are we doing on this? Housing and accommodation need is critical now.
4:45 pm
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Almost every week the Taoiseach tells the Dáil that the State is not politically neutral but is militarily neutral. I wish to quote from an article in the journal.ieearlier this month:
For decades Irish soldiers have trained on the high uplands of Kilworth ranges, located just off the old Cork to Dublin road between the towns of Fermoy and Mitchelstown. ... The laughs and banter of the Irish accents were mixed with foreign voices on the day The Journal visited. There are a host of European uniforms from Germany, Czech Republic, Austria and other locations and even a US uniform mixing with the various men and women. ... [There are] yellow vest wearing soldiers taking notes with a distinctive patch on their arms. These are, uniquely in an Irish setting, NATO assessors. ... One of those assessors is US Navy Commander Sam Mason [on loan from the US military] as part of the European command of NATO.
Ireland is not politically neutral but is militarily neutral. I do not think they were talking politics up there in Kilworth. The Taoiseach might care to explain to the Dáil exactly what is going on here.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, Deputy O'Rourke referred to direct provision and the targets. It is going to be extremely challenging now. It is 2022 and many people in direct provision are in a position where they are now legally resident in the State and can leave direct provision if they wish, but they are staying in it at the moment. Obviously, the wider housing issue is probably a factor in that but it is a significant point nonetheless. I stand to be corrected but I believe there are some 1,800 people who could potentially leave. They are free to leave but choose to stay. That has been the position for quite some time, even before this crisis erupted.
Examination will be given to Catherine Day's report. There are two broad issues here. A decision was taken by the Government - at the very beginning of this Government - to reorganise migration policy and action from justice to gender and equality, and that happened. That clearly has implications in that nobody anticipated the level of crisis that has subsequently occurred with the war in Ukraine and the very significant increase in those seeking international protection. This has gone way up in contrast with the previous reports we have received. We were talking about an average of 3,500 in the last report but that has all changed because of conflict in the world and a whole range of issues, from Syria, Ethiopia, climate change and so forth.
The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has been working flat out with the Housing for All programme, even to get to the targets we have set ourselves. This is a whole-of-government approach and has been a whole-of-government approach from the beginning in dealing with this issue.
Deputy Ó Murchú raised the issue of communications, and it is a fair point. We will continue working on that to try to enhance and improve that.
Deputy Paul Murphy raised the European Union military assistance programme in Europe. I take exception to the assertions by Deputies Murphy, Boyd Barrett and Barry that somehow, the war is being used by the Government as an excuse to join NATO and to work with NATO. That is a fairly sick allegation to make.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What were they doing in Cork then?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This was an unprovoked war by Russia on Ukraine that nobody wanted. Many countries that are members of NATO spoke to Putin and asked him to stop and not to do it, including President Macron and Chancellor Scholz. I do not know why the Deputies are so anti-Ukraine but they are anti-Ukraine. It is very clear-----
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Will the Taoiseach answer the question?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering. This is how I am answering the question.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach should stop bluffing and answer the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering the question, if the Deputy would leave me, but he does not like what I am saying. The Deputy boycotted the one minute silence on the Holodomor.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach is waffling on and he is not answering the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies opposite deliberately boycotted that event today-----
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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What was NATO doing in Cork?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----and I will say that in respect of the allegations the Deputy has made, this country is not a member of NATO.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Answer the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering the question.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach is not-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have never participated in any military campaign with NATO-----
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach is running around it.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy, please.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was not up in Kilworth eavesdropping on what they were doing but I was in Lebanon.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Kilworth. The Taoiseach must stop waffling.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Who were we with in Lebanon? Ireland was with the Polish army.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach is waffling.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We were peacekeeping with Poland and we engage in peacekeeping with other countries that are members of the United Nations. There has to be interoperability.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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In Kilworth, Taoiseach.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I presume that any work we do with other troops is interoperability in respect of peacekeeping missions-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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With NATO.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that the Irish Army is engaged in. The Deputy is asserting a complete untruth. Every time it comes to Ukraine, every other Deputy in this House today-----
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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What Ukraine-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Every other Deputy in this House, including Deputy Crowe, and I will deal with Deputy Crowe's issue-----
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Answer the question I asked.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I put down a question as well. The Deputies opposite cannot just dictate everything here.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will. Deputy Crowe put down a question as well, which is in stark contrast-----
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Through the Chair-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Every time there is a debate on Ukraine-----
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Every time there is a debate on Ukraine-----
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Please, Taoiseach, just a minute.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My apologies.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Please Deputies, who is the Chair? We are way over time and are out of time. There are at least four questions to be responded to and we are way over time and out of time. I ask that the Taoiseach would respond, uninterrupted.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Every time there is a question on Ukraine, and especially to do with refugees and humanitarian issues, the three Deputies opposite bring it back to NATO and the Russian argument. It is the same argument used by Russia last week, when it named a lot of Irish politicians on their list.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Kilworth. Answer the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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You guys are acting like puppets for Putin's regime.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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What was NATO doing in Cork?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What the Deputies are at is a disgrace. I have watched it now for months.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Stop bluffing and answer the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is all you do. You are puppets for the Putin regime. I will revert to Deputy Crowe with a reply.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Will the Taoiseach answer the question? Will the Taoiseach give a guarantee that they were just doing de-mining? Can he give a guarantee? Why can the Taoiseach not give a guarantee?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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They cannot dictate-----
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Will the Taoiseach give a guarantee about de-mining? Or is it going to be the same as with the Minister, Deputy Coveney? Please answer the question about de-mining.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Friends of the Kremlin. Not one of them on the blacklist.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The Taoiseach has finished the questions.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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He said he was going to answer. He said it just two minutes ago.
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies are on Putin's Christmas card list; we are just on the blacklist.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Will the Taoiseach guarantee they were just doing de-mining training?
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Could we do this through-----
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We are on the blacklist; the Deputies are on the Christmas card list.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I doubt that.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy Crowe, please. Could we have just a tiny smidgeon of respect? I am moving on to the next questions.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Will the Taoiseach answer the question?
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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He cannot.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am moving onto the next round of questions. There is not actually-----
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The Taoiseach is deliberately holding onto the question and he avoided all of them, and instead we got just bluff and nonsense.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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There is not 15 minutes left for the next round of questions now. I will check what is left and we will stick to the time.