Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of Permanent Defence Forces personnel inducted and discharged by rank to date in 2022; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [58280/22]

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of Defence Forces personnel inducted and discharged by rank to date in 2022. [58474/22]

Jim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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18. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he will detail according to rank the number of vacancies in the Defence Forces in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [58286/22]

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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33. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of vacancies that exist in the Defence Forces by rank. [58475/22]

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister the number of Permanent Defence Forces personnel inducted and discharged by rank to date in 2022.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 9, 18 and 33 together.

We have already touched on some of these numbers, but I will go through them again. I note that tables of details of inductions, discharges and vacancies in the Defence Forces were requested and I will arrange for the Deputies who requested them to get them in writing so that there is no misunderstanding on where we stand on numbers.

Recruitment and retention difficulties in the Defence Forces have been previously acknowledged. In addition, the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces made it clear that the level of ambition, LOA, for the Defence Forces needed to be elevated beyond that at which it is currently operating. In that context, Government approved a move, over a six-year period, to a level of Defence Forces’ capability equivalent to LOA 2. This will require an additional 2,000 personnel beyond the current establishment figure of 9,500. As we said earlier, the figure is now higher than 2,000.

As I outlined in response to the previous questions, the Defence Forces are developing strategies to increase recruitment to address the current shortfall in numbers and to plan for future increases. The target is to realise a Defence Forces strength of 11,500 by 2028, incorporating an appropriate civilian component.

A range of initiatives are under way to counter the existing staffing challenges. In respect of recruitment, there is ongoing general service and direct entry recruitment with further inductions due to take place before the end of the year. A separate recruitment competition has also been launched specifically for Air Corps recruits, who in the past were drawn from the wider general service recruitment pool.

The scope, and terms and conditions of the direct entry competitions remain under ongoing consideration. The campaign to re-enlist and recommission former members of the Permanent Defence Force has also boosted specialist numbers. The “Be More” recruitment campaign, launched this year, highlights the career opportunities available in the Defence Forces and also the wider benefits of membership, in line with one of the recommendations of the Commission on the Defence Forces to enhance the visibility of the wider benefits of membership of the Defence Forces.

Retention measures being implemented include service commitment schemes in the Air Corps and in the Naval Service and the seagoing naval personnel tax credit. Pay has improved as a result of increases arising from the Public Service Pay Commission report and from recent pay agreements as well as the early implementation of some of the recommendations of the Commission on the Defence Forces. Agreement has also been reached on the extension of service limits for privates and corporals. I recently agreed an interim arrangement with the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, in respect of sergeants.

My focus is on bringing the strength of the Defence Forces to the numbers required to meet the agreed level of ambition arising from the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces.

I will outline some of the numbers available to me. There were 735 discharges and 452 inductions as of 18 November 2022. That is a net loss of 283. We have not reached the turning point of achieving net increases given the recruitment and retention challenges we face. As I said at the start of this Question Time, we will meet every month to focus on recruitment and retention until we turn those numbers around and start to build numbers rather than managing losses.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I compliment the Minister on his efforts with that regular monthly engagement. I ask the Minister to detail for me, as a layperson in this field, what exactly happens at these monthly meetings. Are targets set? Are action points left to the various stakeholders? What is the general run of those meetings? Given the number of questions tabled today and most months, there is a tacit acknowledgement that there are significant challenges, as the Minister has acknowledged repeatedly again this morning. I ask him to give the general run of those meetings. Are targets set? How do we gauge that we will ultimately reach the turning point he mentioned?

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for those figures. I accept he is equally concerned at the shortfall of 283. Most parts of the public service are expanding apart from the Defence Forces. I agree that retention is a massive issue. The Minister may not be aware that there are six married quarters in Casement Aerodrome in Baldonnel, which members of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence visited about ten days ago. It is an excellent model. If the pay issue cannot be resolved immediately, perhaps accommodation could be used as a retention tool. There are six houses in Baldonnel which are excellently managed. There are no issues with overhaul in any shape or form. People living on base are military families and are rotated every year or two. There is plenty of space in Baldonnel to increase the number of houses there. We spoke to the general officer in command who said he would be in favour of the principle. Would the Minister consider providing more housing on base for military families to take them off the social housing list and use it as a retention tool?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We do set targets at the monthly meetings, not only for the remainder of this year, but also for next year. We are also planning investment programmes for the year ahead. For example, we are finalising a concept brief for the transformation of Gormanstown as a specialist training centre dealing with significantly greater numbers than we can currently deal with. We are planning for the induction and recruitment of up to 1,000 people per year through such a facility, working with the Curragh and other facilities.

Much thought, planning and consideration is going into how, over the next six years, we can realistically get to the stage of having 3,000 more people in the Permanent Defence Forces than we have today. This would mean an average net increase of about 500 people each year, especially if we are going to be losing between 400 and 600 people per year. It is not unreasonable for an organisation to have a turnover level of between 7% and 9%. We need to get those numbers down as much as we can. However, we have to anticipate that people will be retiring and leaving the Defence Forces. We need to plan for those numbers and we are planning. We have the money to do it, as well as the policy basis.

Ultimately, this is about making a career in the Defence Forces more attractive in terms of pay, conditions, certainty, culture, adventure, career opportunities and development of skill sets in a combined package. Following the commission's report and some of the actions we have taken in recent months, they have improved significantly, but we need to continue this. A policy decision was made to move away from putting married quarters in barracks for reasons the Deputy will probably understand, relating to difficulties in the past. I accept there is accommodation within Baldonnel that is working well. I have an open mind, but we need to think through all the choices we make.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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We all acknowledge the issues and they are well documented, and the Minister acknowledged the challenges himself. I refer to the figures of 735 discharges and 452 new inductions. What portion of the 735 discharges are due to retirement? The Minister rightly acknowledged that as with nurses, doctors or any other job in the public sector, there will be a natural turnover of staff. Can the Minister provide an estimate of how many are discharged naturally through retirements?

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for his reply on housing. If he has not visited the small campus of six houses, perhaps next time he flies out of Baldonnel, he might ask to see it and eyeball it himself. It is an excellent model that could be expanded upon.

I agree that a policy decision on housing in the Defence Forces was taken a couple of decades ago, but that was prior to the housing crisis. It is appropriate that the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage takes the lead, from a national point of view, in tackling the crisis. However, the defence apparatus could also make a contribution, an example of which would be to provide and manage properly housing for military families in Baldonnel and the Curragh while they are in the military. It would double as a good retention tool and assist in dealing with the national housing crisis.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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In truth, to provide the number of houses required to make a significant impact on recruitment and retention would need a huge capital investment programme. That is not the direction of policy we have taken in recent years. I am not ruling anything out, but I refer to the idea that providing housing for personnel, to keep them in the Defence Forces, will be a mainstay of our recruitment and retention strategy in the coming years. It may have some niche roles to play within certain elements of the Defence Forces, but it is unlikely to be a mainstay. Pay and conditions as well as supports, such as medical facilities and provision, are likely to have a much greater impact. Let us look at the historic turnover to put things into context. Turnover was 8.26% in 2018; 10.01% in December 2019; 7.4% in December 2020; 8% in 2021; and 10%. Turnover is between 7% and 10%.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are over time.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will finish on this point. Quite a number of Members asked a question in this grouping.

It is not true to say the Defence Forces are unique in terms of vacancies across the public sector. There are recruitment and retention issues across the public sector, be it in healthcare, An Garda Síochána, or the Defence Forces, as well as in many other specialist areas.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are way over time.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Our challenge within defence is to be dynamic enough to be able to respond to that and turn those numbers around, and that is what we intend to do.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Extra time is allocated when questions are grouped, and there were six minutes for this grouping.