Dáil debates
Thursday, 2 June 2022
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Child Abuse
3:45 pm
Chris Andrews (Dublin Bay South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to speak on this important matter. As the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, may recall, it is not the first time I have raised this particular issue and the concerns I have around St. John Ambulance Ireland in the Dáil.
Most people will be familiar with the positive image this organisation aims to promote. When we see them at a wide range of sporting events, including GAA, soccer and rugby games in the RDS and at various community events, it is important to remember that the organisation gets funding from the State, albeit indirectly through the national governing bodies.
However, the dark and deeply disturbing actions of some of its personnel during the 1990s seldom gets the coverage it should. One journalist, Mr. Jack Power, has done a great deal of strong work in bringing this particular issue to the fore.
The child and adult sexual abuse carried out over a number of years by senior members of St. John Ambulance Ireland is deeply disturbing. I commend the bravery of three survivors, Mr. Mick Finnegan, Mr. Paul Mulholland and Mr. Martin Hoey, who have spoken out publicly of the horrific sexual abuse they experienced when they were members of the organisation. Mr. Finnegan was only a young cadet when the abuse started. Some of his testimony is harrowing. It is distressing.
Previously, in this Chamber I have raised my deep concern that the organisation is closing ranks to protect rapists and sexual abusers who may or may not still be active members of St. John Ambulance Ireland. Now, once again, I am here raising my deeply-held concerns that St. John Ambulance Ireland is, once again, closing ranks.
Survivors of that horrific abuse are deeply concerned that the review by Dr. Shannon will not be made public and will not be shared with survivors. If this is the case, it would be an absolute disgrace. It would be an insult to the bravery of the people and survivors who have come forward with their horrific abuse stories. It will be highlighted in Dr. Shannon's report and his review.
It is not easy for survivors to come forward and to have to give a detailed account of the horrors of sexual abuse. It takes great bravery and commitment and a sense of justice to step forward.
I ask the Minister directly to liaise with Dr. Shannon and with St. John Ambulance Ireland to ensure that the review is made available to the public, and particularly to the survivors of this sexual abuse. We need to see organisations such as St. John Ambulance Ireland using the review as a learning tool to ensure best practice when it comes to child protection.
I certainly commend the Minister for the work he has done for and the support he has provided to survivors. It does not sit well with me to know that State funds, via national governing bodies, NGBs, of sporting organisations, are ending up in an organisation that has closed ranks in the face of a review into sex abuse and now, possibly, will prevent the publication of this report.
Week in, week out St. John Ambulance Ireland continues to provide a service for various sporting and national governing bodies and communities. We need to see the Government standing firm and ensuring that St. John Ambulance Ireland is not allowed to hide anything here.
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I thank the Deputy. First, I want to recognise the Deputy's consistent advocacy on this issue. The Deputy and Senator Ruane in the Seanad have both been strongly vocal on this issue.
I know reports of historical sexual abuse in St. John Ambulance Ireland have been highlighted over recent years. As the Deputy states, the case initially concerned three men who made allegations against one named adult. Two of these individuals were under 18 at the time of the abuse and all three people and the accused were volunteers with the St. John Ambulance organisation. A fourth man came forward in November 2020 and a fifth came forward in the latter part of 2021. Recent media reports state that at least two further people have come forward.
As I am sure the Deputy is aware, the Charities Regulator, under the aegis of the Department of Rural and Community Development, is Ireland's statutory regulator for charitable organisations, including St. John Ambulance, so my Department does not have a role in the governance of that body. Of course, child sexual abuse is not consigned to the past and it is my role and that of my Department, in collaboration with Tusla, to protect children now.
I met the board of St. John Ambulance in late 2020. I understand the organisation has worked with Tusla to ensure compliance with obligations under Children First and has accepted the recommendations of Tusla to arrange an independent review of the issues raised. Dr. Geoffrey Shannon, senior counsel, an internationally recognised expert in child protection, was subsequently commissioned by the board of St. John Ambulance in March 2021 to conduct the independent review into the handling of historical child sexual abuse within St. John Ambulance. The findings will be presented to the board of St. John Ambulance in the first instance but it is my expectation that St. John Ambulance will ensure publication of the report. The terms of reference of the review, as fully agreed by Dr. Shannon, set out that he will examine how St. John Ambulance handled past allegations of child sexual abuse relating to the individual in question and any other allegations made. The review is also tasked with examining the current standard of child safeguarding at the organisation.
Like the Deputy, I have met one of the individuals who has come forward. I commend that person and all others who have often at immense personal cost come forward to take cases and, in particular, shared their experiences publicly. I strongly encourage anybody who has knowledge of these matters to come forward and speak with Dr. Shannon.
Dr. Shannon has provided a dedicated website to support his review that can be accessed at . The site enables people to make direct contact with Dr. Shannon and more details of the review are available on the site. It is important that we give Dr. Shannon the opportunity to progress his work independently and form his conclusions. I look forward to seeing the findings. Everybody recognises the major depth of expertise that Dr. Shannon brings to this matter. Again, I urge anyone with relevant information to contact Dr. Shannon and bring this information to light.
To answer the Deputy's specific question, I have no direct power of compulsion in terms of the publication of the report. I state unequivocally, however, that I want to see the report published at the end of the process.
3:55 pm
Chris Andrews (Dublin Bay South, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I acknowledge and appreciate that the Minister has been very engaged with the process and has met survivors. They have all spoken very highly of the Minister's role in this. I accept that he does not have a direct role in the report and its publication but when does the Minister think the Shannon report will be published? It is essential that it be made public and that survivors have access to the report. If, for some reason, it is not made public, will the Minister commit to having his own investigation carried out and a report compiled? It is important that the State would show there is no place where sex abusers can hide and there would not be another carpet under which abuse could be brushed. When does the Minister expect the Shannon report to be published? If it is not put into the public domain, will he commit to carrying out his own investigation and issuing report?
Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source
I cannot answer the first question. Dr. Shannon is an extremely thorough individual, as demonstrated by the reports he has done in the past and the quality of the work. It is important that we give him time to do this work. He made it very clear that he wants to engage with victims face to face. He did not want to do this through Zoom or online but in person. That is why it took some time at the start and why the interviews did not take place as soon as the review was initiated. He also wanted to get a very clear understanding of the operating conditions of the review and wanted those to be very clear with St. John Ambulance.
I am reluctant to pressure Dr. Shannon on when the report will be published. He must be given the time to do this properly. I am confident, in looking at his track record, that it will be done properly. We should give him the time to continue to work. I know he is very good in getting back to survivors and updating them, to the best of his ability.
If we have had a report undertaken over a period, I would be reluctant to commit to initiating another report. We need this report published. What I will commit to is doing everything in my power - it is not a legal power - to ensure that at the end of this process, the report can be published. It will not be published immediately and the organisation needs time to look at it and respond. Nonetheless, it is my view that the report must be published at the end of this process. I will do whatever I can to achieve that.