Dáil debates

Thursday, 19 May 2022

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Covid-19 Pandemic

9:30 am

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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6. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment further to Parliamentary Question No. 191 of 26 April 2022, the status of his engagement at EU and WTO levels with regard to the waiving of intellectual property rights in respect of Covid-19 vaccines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25369/22]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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33. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment his views that an Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, TRIPS' waiver should be agreed at the WTO in order to ensure access to Covid vaccines and therapeutics. [25228/22]

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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37. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will detail his engagements in relation to the introduction of a TRIPS waiver on Covid-19 vaccines and technology; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25339/22]

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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52. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will provide an update on the prospect of a TRIPS waiver for Covid-19 vaccines and technologies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24866/22]

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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58. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will use his position on the Council of Ministers of Trade to encourage the introduction of a TRIPS waiver on Covid-19 vaccines and technology. [25349/22]

Photo of Gary GannonGary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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59. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will support the Covid-19 TRIPS waiver; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22977/22]

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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My question relates specifically to the waiving of intellectual property rights in respect of Covid-19 vaccines given their uneven distribution. I ask for an update on the waiving of the rights and the Minister of State's engagement at EU and WTO levels.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 33, 37, 52, 58 and 59 together. I thank Deputy Connolly and her colleagues for tabling them.

As we have outlined previously to both Houses, universal and equitable access to safe, effective and affordable vaccines, diagnostics and treatments is crucial in the global fight against Covid-19. This is at the heart of the Irish Government's international response to the pandemic, and governments in the developed world must do more to ensure this happens. As a member of the EU, we have been fully engaged in the overall EU response concerning the TRIPS waiver. The EU believes that there is no single solution, that a multipronged approach is needed and that discussions should concentrate on how the intellectual property system can contribute towards increasing the manufacturing capacity and equitable access to vaccines around the world.

Since last autumn, the EU has participated in the informal discussions on the intellectual property element of the WTO response to the Covid-19 pandemic with representatives of South Africa, India, and the US, known as the Quad group. These discussions have been detailed and protracted, and a potential compromise proposal has now emerged that offers the most promising path toward achieving a meaningful outcome.

The EU believes that the compromise proposal addresses the concerns of South Africa and developing countries regarding the possibility of authorising the manufacturers to produce Covid-19 vaccines without the consent of patent owners. It also streamlines procedures to facilitate faster production of vaccines, while at the same time maintaining a functioning intellectual property framework necessary for the development of new vaccines and medicines.

Since we last engaged on this matter, the proposal has been presented to the full WTO membership for consideration, and agreement will require the consensus of all WTO members. Ireland will continue to engage constructively with the European Commission and other EU member states on the EU position on the compromise proposal in order to reach an agreement as soon as possible.

Global production of Covid-19 vaccines has substantially increased, with production expected to reach 18 billion to 19 billion by mid-2022. This means that, by the middle of this year, we will have a sufficient number of vaccines for everybody in the world, including for booster campaigns. Vaccine supply currently exceeds demand.

As vaccine production is no longer the main issue of concern, the international community is now focused on the need to rapidly build capacity in low-income countries for health care workers, cold-chain logistics and information sharing so that demand for vaccines will increase in line with supply and vaccines can be safely administered on the scale needed to meet the WHO's vaccination target of 70%.

The EU is committed to the equitable distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, with a focus on supporting Africa, where vaccination rates are lower than in other parts of the world. The EU has led the way in global solidarity as the world's largest exporter of Covid-19 vaccines, with over 2.1 billion finished doses exported to 166 countries by March 2022 and over €4 billion committed in financial support to COVAX from all the EU members. The Government has to date committed to the donation of €13.5 million and 5 million vaccines to the COVAX facility. Vaccines have already been delivered to countries including Uganda, Nigeria, Indonesia, Ghana and Burkina Faso, with further deliveries expected to follow shortly.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. The clearest sentence of his written response is the first, which states he believes in universal and equitable access to safe, effective and affordable vaccines.

I agree with the Minister of State completely, but that is not happening. Europe has led the way with a market approach to the production and distribution of vaccines, meaning we are left with the companies making a huge profit and a totally inequitable system. Vaccine inequity persists, according to Oxfam. Some 13% of people in low-income industries have received two doses, compared with 75% of those in high-income industries. Less than 1% of people in low-income countries are boosted, compared with more than 60% in Ireland. The figures speak for themselves, as do the figures for public funding. Up to 97% has gone into AstraZeneca for research and development. We are unclear what public funds went into the other companies to help them have massive profits. The sentence in the beginning has not been followed through.

9:40 am

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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We had a hearing on this in the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment last week. What we heard from the representatives of Médecins Sans Frontières, Oxfam and the pharmaceutical industry was shocking. Médecins Sans Frontières said literally millions of people have died as a consequence of the failure to give a TRIPS waiver. We heard about the almost $100 billion in public funding given to the pharmaceutical industry to develop these vaccines and about the significant profits, which were not contested by the pharmaceutical industry. Three of the biggest companies are making $1,000 per minute in profits from the vaccines. There is massive profiteering.

Yesterday at our private meeting we agreed unanimously, including Deputies from Government-supporting parties, to send a letter to the Tánaiste asking him to agree to a Government position in favour of a TRIPS waiver. The committee's position was clear. It will be interesting to see what the Government says in response.

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State said he was committed to universal access and that it is crucial. The rest of his response reflects how from this Government and at European level there has been fudge, kicking it down the road and the line in relation to there being no single solution. Previously, it was suggested that the answer was not a TRIPS waiver and compulsory licensing might be a better option. Delay, delay, delay. All that delay denies people access to vaccines.

The presentation at the Oireachtas committee from Professor Aisling McMahon pointed to the weakness of the QUAD proposal. It is weaker than the initial proposal that was being considered. It primarily applies to patents and not to other IP rights. She spelled out the weaknesses of the proposal and it is not acceptable.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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At the recent meeting of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment, we heard from Médecins Sans Frontières, Oxfam and representatives of the pharmaceutical industry. We also had a significant number of written submissions on the TRIPS issue. We learned that only 13% of people are double vaccinated in low- and middle-income countries and 1% boosted. We face a significant global problem. If we believe the mantra that nobody is safe until everybody is safe, then we must act urgently. If we fail to act now, we will not be as prepared for the next pandemic or outbreak and low- and middle-income countries will be left behind again. The pharmaceutical companies which attended the meeting focused on the need to invest but representatives from Médecins Sans Frontières and Oxfam were clear that, given much of the investment has been through public funding, it is the global public who should be the beneficiaries. The HIV-AIDS epidemic showed us the way. There was no significant progress until medicines were made freely available. Millions of lives were saved by ending the lack of access.

I wrote to the Tánaiste yesterday in my capacity as chair of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment with the committee's full support to ask him to support a TRIPS waiver. Will he commit to doing that?

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I was not at that committee but will be happy to read back over the submissions on that. I have not had a chance to get a sense of what is being put forward. Much of the debate on this, including the debates we had in these Houses, focused on supply. The EU always took the position that that would not necessarily be the issue and there were many other parts of it, including the capacity of those countries to administer the vaccine and the demand. It is clear now that supply is not the issue and the EU was right. The Deputies will all disagree but the facts are there. The supply of vaccine is up to the level required.

Compromise proposals are being put forward at the WTO. It is not just Europe. It is the WTO. Europe is one player and has led on this in relation to distribution and exportation. Others might have to question themselves on that outside the EU, but the EU has played its part. The compromise text will be beneficial and will help with that. It has been worked on since last autumn. The Government has supported it and it is now informally in those trade talks. I think a meeting is scheduled for the end of this month or early June to try to arrive at a formal decision, which I think will be positive.

We have to continue to support access to manufacture and production, as well as investment in the systems in these countries to be able to administer the vaccine. Healthcare workers, logistics, information-sharing and demand for vaccines are all part of it. I do not agree that the EU has held this back. The EU is part of the world trade talks.

The Government did not oppose the Seanad motion. There was agreement on everyone's intention but there is more than one way to achieve it. The discussion I heard always focused on supply being the issue, but it is not necessarily the supply.

I turn to the issue of the investment of public money. Much work at our level and European level is to recognise the importance of giving greater access to vaccines and to protect our IP regime now and for the future. We talk about public money invested in bringing forward the vaccines quickly, and I have always acknowledged the massive public investment all over the world, but that was combined with massive private investment for many years before that. The vaccines used have involved a combination of new research with investment and development over many years. We want to continue that investment.

I have had debates in this House over many years on investment in research and development. A few Members believe that should all be done by public money. That does not get the best results or lead to the best development of potential medical interventions, solutions, drugs and so on. We need the blend and combination of private and public money to achieve greater impact. That is not acknowledged by some contributors here, and I accept that. We differ and believe it is important to have a right model that encourages private investment as well as public to get the best products developed for people.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Two years after a pandemic was declared, we have an inequitable system in relation to vaccines. The European Commission has led a system that has facilitated profiteering by private companies with public money and a total indemnity against any possible cause of action against them in relation to trial vaccines. Then we blamed other countries and said they had not the capacity when that was illustrated to be totally false. Now we are going down the road of a supposed compromise, which the committee, after hearing the evidence recently, has pointed out is not the way to go. Professor Aisling McMahon has been mentioned and I do not have the time to go through what she highlighted. The Minister of State should read it. I do not accept this model of profiteering on public money for the benefit of companies when the approach should be what happened in relation to AIDS and the generic production of essential vaccines.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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The Minister of State is closing his eyes to the truth and resting in a comfortable ideology that the free market is delivering. What happened was $100 billion of public money was employed because the public said we needed to develop vaccines and therapeutics as quickly as possible. That benefit was privatised. Earlier, I said they are making $1,000 profit per minute. I meant $1,000 per second. That is Pfizer, Moderna and BioNTech. These companies spend more on advertising than on research. That is true of Pfizer, for example.

It is not true that there is no problem in terms of supply. It came out clearly at the committee that, particularly with mRNA vaccines, which are the best quality, there is a huge problem with supply. That is why only one in six people in Africa is fully vaccinated. The compromise is not good enough.

It covers vaccines but not therapeutics. It covers patents but not other intellectual property barriers such as trade secrets. It does not cover every country. It requires agreement on a case-by-case basis by each country, which makes it extremely cumbersome. All of it is designed to protect the profits of the corporations and that will result in more people dying.

9:50 am

Photo of Darren O'RourkeDarren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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Clearly, the position of the Ministry and the Government has been about holding the line. It has been holding the line at European level with an eye to interests there and pharmaceutical interests in Ireland. That is what it has been about. There has been fudge and the use of language to kick the ball down the road. If we wait long enough, supply will not be an issue. What we wanted from the Government was urgent action and intervention. We wanted it to show leadership and be brave in this regard. These are the brave decisions the Government claims it takes, while stating that the Opposition is not fit for the tough decisions. These are the tough decisions the Irish people want the Government to take on their behalf. The people of Ireland are generous in their spirit. They want Ireland to lead on the international stage but the Government has failed to do so. That is completely shameful.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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I echo some of the remarks of my colleague. The committee met with several stakeholders. Yesterday, we agreed on a letter to be sent to the Tánaiste. Obviously, the committee comprises 15 members of all parties and none. In the letter, we ask the Tánaiste to support the TRIPS waiver. He probably has not received it yet, in fairness. I sent it to him yesterday. I ask him to read it carefully. If he so wishes, we can send him the submissions we received. Those submissions are stark. Millions of people have died as a result of the failure to implement the TRIPS waiver. It is not just about this pandemic; it is about considering future pandemics. There has been a massive investment of public moneys in research. It is not all private money that went in there. It is important that we get this right.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputies have raised a few issues there. The debate has not changed much. They are very much focused on IP and the IP regime. The position of the EU has always been that that is not where the sole focus should be. The Deputies and I have differed on that for many months. I am not going to change their minds here. I am happy to consider the letter that was sent to us by the committee and to respond on it.

I have always said that a combination of public and private money is being invested in solutions in this regard. There has never been any dispute about that. The figures are there.

I am not aware of the advertising budgets of the companies mentioned by Deputy Paul Murphy. I seriously doubt that he is correct that they spend more on advertising than on research and development. If he is right, I will give way to that. I have not seen any evidence in that regard. It is something in which I would be interested.

Public and private collaboration has been contributing significantly to the development of treatments for and vaccines against Covid-19. The development of new therapeutics is based on years of research and clinical trials and, if successful, developing manufacturing capacity and distribution networks, which are not necessarily publicly funded. Intellectual property is a crucial incentive for the research and development of novel vaccines, medicines and treatments, as well as investment in production capacity. Experts agree - the Deputies have a different view, based on what they have heard from the experts to whom they have listened - that the current Covid vaccines were produced in record time as industry was able to piggy-back on years of investment in other vaccine productions which has been incentivised by, in part, a supportive intellectual property regime. That is something we want to protect not just for now, but for the future because we recognise that the best results in the development of the best products and medical solutions come from a combination of public and private money. That has to be recognised.

As regards dealing with what is happening now, to be clear in respect of our role in this with the EU, trade is an exclusive competence of the EU and, accordingly, the negotiations on TRIPS, as a trade matter, are led by the EU. We feed into that. Ireland engages with the European Commission and other EU member states on the EU position for the WTO discussions on the TRIPS waiver. The EU has not necessarily agreed with the TRIPS waiver on the grounds that intellectual property rights are not the primary obstacle to access to the supply of vaccines around the world. I am conscious that the Deputies are convinced that IP rights are the primary obstacle in that regard, based on what they have heard from the people to whom they have listened, and I accept their position, but it is not a position that is necessarily accepted by everybody else. Since last autumn, the EU has actively engaged in informal discussions with representatives of South Africa, India and the US with regard to the process.

Photo of Marc Ó CathasaighMarc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister of State. We have spent a significant amount of time on this question.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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In 2020, Pfizer, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline all spent more on sales and marketing than on research and development.

Photo of Marc Ó CathasaighMarc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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We have spent a large amount of time on questions on this issue this morning.