Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Irish Water has only collected 46% of expected revenue despite bills falling due in the past two months. Only 43% of the expected customer base of 1.5 million people have paid up. If that rate of payment continues, the Government will take in approximately €120 million, while it will have paid out approximately €130 million. The water conservation grant will amount to €25 million and another €25 million will be due in interest repayments on the loans taken out to pay for the installation of water meters. On that basis, the Government will lose at least €35 million in revenue as a result of the imposition of the tax. It is probably the first Government in history to lose money having introduced a tax. That is extraordinary.

In addition, the capacity of Irish Water to pass the EUROSTAT test will be in severe jeopardy, notwithstanding the fact that the Government has cooked the books by shifting approximately €60 million of Irish Water's spending onto the local government fund. Registration confirms that one will get the €100 conservation grant. It was confirmed this morning by Irish Water that no proof of payment of one's bill is required. Essentially, if one does not pay one's bill, one will be rewarded with a €100 conservation grant.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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One could not make it up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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One will get paid for not paying one's water bill.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is extraordinary. Why would pay it at all if that is the case?

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is kindergarten stuff.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Mattie McGrath should stay quiet and let Deputy Martin put his question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why would one pay the water charge if one gets the €100 in any event? Those who have paid must be looking askance at the situation having learned of it this morning. Even if one is not an Irish Water customer, one will get the €100. If one does not pay one's bill, one will get the €100. Could the Taoiseach explain the reason a person would get a €100 conservation grant if he or she does not even pay his or her water charges bill? Does the Taoiseach accept that the policy has failed? The figures reveal that. After 14 U-turns on this entire saga, it is time to call a halt and to abolish the charges and this whole operation and edifice. It is a moment of high farce that the Government has now landed us in and it is time to go back to the drawing board and start afresh.

Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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You landed us in it.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Fix the leaks.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thought Deputy Martin might raise Irish Water today. I very much thank the 675,000 households who have paid their Irish Water bill. That represents approximately 2 million people in the country. Deputy Martin is still taking the same line as he always did, namely, to leave things as they were within an official system, both for water and for wastewater. The very fact that Irish Water has been set up, admittedly with challenges, allows for the entity to be able to borrow and to invest-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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At what rate?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----to fix all the problems that exist and to provide a proper water system and wastewater system for this country for the next 20 to 50 years. Deputy Martin does not seem to have a connection with a particular section of Irish people. They are people who have paid for their water for the past 50 years in group water schemes all over the country, who were very glad to get it. Many schemes were inferior and they are now in a position to be able to rectify them and update them.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is spending less.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They too will get their €100 incentive from the Department of Social Protection once they register as users. Deputy Martin does not seem to recognise that at all.

I have listened to many left wing people talk about the issue recently. It is the same old story. They want to pay for nothing, make no contribution, and expect someone else to do it for them.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That is not true. That is a distortion.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government has been very clear about this. The charge is €3 per week or €1.15 per week. That is a very modest and fair contribution.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Could the Taoiseach rewind and answer the question?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin's party left this country in an unprecedented mess.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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How about the question the Taoiseach was asked?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is the last person who should come in here and talk about the situation.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Members please stay quiet?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Am I the last person?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not Deputy Cowen's question.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is directing his answer at me now.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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He might be leader some day but in the meantime he should allow Deputy Martin to lead.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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We want the Taoiseach to answer the question he was asked.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not accept Deputy Martin's assertion.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is obvious.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Deputy Mattie McGrath ever stay quiet?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is the start of a billing process. People have received their first bills. They are entitled to factor that into the budgetary strategy for their households. The Government did not increase income tax in the way Deputy Martin wants to do now. Unlike other utilities, no reminders have yet issued to households but that will happen. Irish Water is still developing its customer database. People might be included in the database who are being billed unnecessarily.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Yes, a lot of people have been.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Including deceased people.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As Deputy Martin is well aware, there are always teething problems. Approximately 182,000 properties in Irish Water's database are holiday homes and vacant dwellings. It is likely that some people are as yet unaware of their liability. I expect that people will continue to contribute.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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One cannot pay from the grave.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Cowen is aware that in Castlerea and south Roscommon, 11,300 people had boil water notices lifted from their households in the past two weeks.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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That would have happened anyway.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The people of Castlerea had been operating under a boil water notice since November 2009. Irish Water was set up to be able to borrow independently and invest in fixing and rectifying problems due to the situation in Castlerea and in other places around the country.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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At a higher rate.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The point made by Deputy Martin on EUROSTAT is a matter for EUROSTAT, which is completely independent in the way it does its analysis of the situation in so far as Irish Water is concerned and it will make its decision in its own good time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Taoiseach a simple question and as usual he did everything but answer it. Could he explain why a person would get a €100 conservation grant even if that person does not pay his or her water bill?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a very simple question. It is a question that is connected to people who pay because they are wondering why one would bother paying under the regime the Government has established.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Why did they pay?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Under that regime, one gets €100 if one does not bother paying one's bill. The bottom line is that given the rate of compliance, as of now the Government is losing money as a result of the introduction of the water charge. That is a fact. The Government has been forced into U-turn after U-turn.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could Deputy Martin ask a question please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The net result is that following the introduction of the water tax, at the end of the year the Government will be down by between €35 million and €50 million. It is some feat to introduce a tax and lose money as a result of it. Only stubbornness and pig-headedness is driving the Government on in terms of trying to create the impression that all is well, but if the Taoiseach wants to pretend that all is well, he can do so.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Martin is over time. Would he please adhere to the Chair?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will not try to convince the Taoiseach that the situation is one of high farce right now in terms of how people look at the edifice that has been created and the extraordinarily farcical situation whereby if someone does not pay his or her bill, he or she will get a conservation grant.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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One could not make it up, in terms of administration or operating any taxation system.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy fails to recognise that the sum of €100 is not just an incentive for people to contribute but also a conservation grant.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is a bribe.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy's philosophy has nothing to do with conservation. When billions of euro were sloshing around in the economy, Fianna Fáil had no concept of the conservation of money in the interests of the people.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is all the Taoiseach can say.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach was promising 4.5% growth in 2007. He, too, has questions to answer.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil squandered the livelihoods, careers, opportunities and ambitions of thousands of people, some of whom are now in America, Australia, Britain and elsewhere. Deputy Micheál Martin and his party, with a philosophy under which there was no attempt at conservation, are directly responsible. I expect people to continue to contribute to building an entity to deal with the many problems we have with the quality of water, the extent of wastewater going into lakes, rivers and seas, resulting in the loss of blue flags, and issues affecting the hospitality sector.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Barry Cowen is sighing. He does not believe the Taoiseach.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He should quit while he is ahead.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has invested less money during the past three years than was invested during the previous three.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The red flag is up on the Government.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has spent €780 million.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Where is the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is why Irish Water was established. Deputy Micheál Martin knows that for many years the average investment has been approximately €300 million. It should be €600 million at least. That is why Irish Water was established. Fianna Fáil's philosophy was to approve water charges which were much higher than those the Government has introduced. It then abandoned ship when others said they would be populist about it.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is spending less and wasting money.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Where is fiscal competency now?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The party is over.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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While there are challenges, I expect the people to see the benefit of having an entity such as Irish Water and contribute to it. The charges are €1.15 and €3 per week and the sum of €100 to which the Deputy referred is a conservation grant for people who register online.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Taoiseach answer the question he was asked?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Tell it to the people.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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He will quit when he is behind.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will everyone stay quiet for one minute, settle down and let Deputy Mary Lou McDonald make her point? We all want to hear.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am sure they do.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputies must be wound up before they come in. Do they wind themselves up or what?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach does it for us.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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There is something in the water.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is the same little group. It must be the area in which they sit. They should change places.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The air conditioning might be causing it.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In a major blow to the Government’s misguided water charges policy, Irish Water has finally revealed that it managed to collect from only 43% of households who had been targeted to pay. This is despite the extraordinary lengths to which the Government has gone to force them to pay. In the face of widespread rejection of the water tax, the Government had resorted to coercion, or so it thought. This week it is ramming through legislation to pickpocket the incomes of already hard-pressed citizens to prop up the discredited Irish Water quango. Although the Taoiseach had hoped it would frighten a significant number of people to pay the bills they had received, he was wrong - it did not happen. This represents more than a challenge to him, his Government and Irish Water. He has been told in no uncertain terms that his water tax is going nowhere. He has been told that families across the State are not being cowed by threats from the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, or the Taoiseach's bribes.

Who are the 57% who have not paid? They are not people who, as the Taoiseach asserts, do not want to pay for anything, an insult he regularly levels at families.

Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy paid.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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In my experience, they are a mixture of people who will not pay on principle because they already pay through general taxation; they believe water is a human right and oppose the privatisation of such a vital service. As I have explained to the Taoiseach many times, there are many families who cannot pay, who do not have the €3 or €1 per week about which he is so glib. They do not have it because they have been screwed by the Government in the past four years and have nothing left to give.

The Taoiseach thought he had got away with it. He thought the cosmetic changes the Minister, Deputy Alan Kelly, had introduced last year would thwart the anti-water charges campaign, but he was wrong. The popular citizens' campaign against this unjust tax has not gone away. If anything, it has grown in strength and support. Last week the trade unions reaffirmed their strong opposition to water charges. Did the Taoiseach hear? The right to water campaign will stage another major public demonstration on 29 August. I hope Fianna Fáil will be there, having had a conversion to an anti-water charges campaign.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach do something refreshing and out of character? Will he end the sorry saga that is Irish Water? Will he, finally, acknowledge that his Government's efforts to bribe, coerce and intimidate families into complying with his water tax have failed? Will he return to the drawing board and abolish these charges?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Sometimes the Deputy amuses me, when she is clearly in competition with other Opposition parties to generate publicity for her party. She is a member of a party which proclaimed that all of its members were legislators and that they would pay the water contributions. Then, when she was caught out by Deputy Paul Murphy, further out on the left wing, she decided it would be a populist measure to oppose water charges.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It is true.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The soldiers of destiny.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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She was followed by the Soldiers of Destiny who said they favoured water charges but thought they should be abolished.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We oppose the mess the Government created.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The only people who can be trusted are the Independents.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The consequence would be increased income tax. Yesterday I gave Deputy Mary Lou McDonald full marks for her mathematics when she was dividing the time allocated for the amendments to a particular Bill. Irish Water has received 46% of expected revenue, not 43%.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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Some 43% of people paid.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach had three weeks to get ready and is still getting it wrong.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Again, I thank the 675,000 householders who have made their contributions. Given that a number of people have received bills only in the very recent past, obviously, we expect more people to contribute to what is a very important entity. We have been very clear about the charges and I do not say this glibly, as the Deputy remarked. The charge is €1.15 or €3 per week, which is a very modest contribution, fixed until 2019. People know exactly where we are headed, namely, towards the provision of clean water and proper wastewater treatment facilities around the country. The Government has not increased income taxes, as Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin want to do.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has introduced approximately 40 new taxes during the past three years, including property tax and water tax. The Taoiseach should read George Orwell again. He is the man for the Government.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I was interested in Deputy Mary Lou McDonald’s comment on this issue on 2 February when she was asked how Sinn Féin would pay for water services and facilities around the country. Her answer was very clear. She said, "We would be looking at all forms of formula that would achieve that." I am not sure what it means.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It sounds like something the Taoiseach would say.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As far as the Government is concerned, Irish Water has received 46% of its expected revenue from 675,000 households, representing 2 million people. The contributions are very fair. The Government has been clear that water will not be cut off, that people will not be sent to prison, that the contribution is very modest and that it is for a very good cause for all the people and the country for the next 30 to 50 years. I hope and expect more people to continue to pay their bills, register and contribute to a fundamentally important entity for the future.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I hate to break it to the Taoiseach but he is going to be sorely disappointed if that is his sincere hope. He has comprehensively failed to win the support of the people for the introduction of this charge. What he has left them with is a quango of enormous proportions, controversies around consultancy fees and so on, meters in the ground that cost a fortune and which are not being used. There is lead piping hither, thither and yon, which represents a threat to people’s health.

Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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What would Sinn Féin do? Its solution is to ignore it.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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He has done this against a backdrop-----

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin would know about lead in piping.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----of endless austerity.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Come on lads and get the lead out.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach and his cronies in government have-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I would not go there.

Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin knows all about that.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Members stay quiet?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----stuck their hands in the pockets of working people.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin would know about lead in piping.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I expect more from Ministers to lead by example. It is hard enough job to sit here and keep order. When I have Ministers heckling, however, it is a big problem.

Will you please finish your point, Deputy McDonald? Your time is up.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle.

The Government’s strategy has been to buy off one half of the population with its €100 water conservation grant - wink, wink - and then intimidate the other half with a threat of attachment orders, court proceedings and sticking its hands into their pensions, welfare and wages. Newsflash for the Taoiseach: none of that has worked.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Newsflash for you, Deputy. Your time is up.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Up to 57% of those due to pay have not paid and will not pay. More of them cannot pay.

Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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How does the Deputy know?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is time for the Taoiseach to have a moment of clarity, even vision, and see the wood from the trees. He must understand that this charge is going nowhere. In the public interest, what the Taoiseach needs to do is to scrap it, not to make smart or condescending comments about my mathematics. His own mathematics are not too hot. Those with great mathematical skills are lone parents, however.

Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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What about Gerry?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The lone parents the Taoiseach has ripped off and who now he glibly claims can find the €3 which they do not have.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, will you please resume your seat?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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He must abolish the charge.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I think I heard Deputy McDonald say recently that it would have been an interesting experiment for Ireland to have followed Syriza’s example in Greece. Am I correct? This is where she wants to place our country and our people, yet she comes in here talking about pensioners and ordinary people.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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The Government put the boot into them.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The interesting thing would have been to see the Taoiseach negotiate. We have yet to see that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy’s philosophy is to allow what has happened in Greece to happen here.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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It is your German pals in the Bundestag that have done that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McDonald has made her point about looking at all the formulae. Let me repeat again. The reason Irish Water has been set up is to provide proper and quality water facilities for our people and proper wastewater treatment plants-----

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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And for bonuses.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It has played a blinder so far.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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It is to sell it off.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is an outrageous comment, Deputy Ellis.

Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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That is what we are paying for. It is privatisation.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Up to 675,000 households have registered and paid their contributions. That represents 2 million people.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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What about the 2 million who have not?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Many people have only received their bills in the recent past. I expect they will contribute and pay their bills, as many more will in the future.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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They are all past their sell-by date.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The use of meters is to determine the extent of water use. Second, they will be able to identify where they are completely inadequate facilities, either leaks or the consequences of lead pipes into houses.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no scientific basis for that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is not. The Deputy should talk to the senior officials in Irish Water.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Whether Deputy McDonald likes it or does not want to recognise it, water conservation is a very important part of what we have to do.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Wait until they come after your own.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Taoiseach should toddle over to the audio-visual room at 3 p.m.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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For years, taxpayers have been paying for inadequate facilities with 50% of water supplies leaking into the ground. However, Sinn Féin does not want to recognise that either. The extent of investment for years to come will be of a nature that will fix these leaks and inadequate facilities while providing proper water services for town, country, business, industry and consumer. Again, I thank those 675,000 householders who have contributed.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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It is a terrific success. Will the Taoiseach pull the other one?

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should take this to Carnegie Hall.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I expect this to continue and more will contribute to a modest charge. It is only €1.15 and €3 per week.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It might be a modest charge for the Taoiseach.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Modest if you have it.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Yesterday, the Taoiseach said the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Committee of Public Accounts are the agencies in this jurisdiction for dealing with issues concerning the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA. We both know neither of them have the potential to fully hold NAMA to account. The legislation regarding the Comptroller and Auditor General does not allow for ongoing, intrusive oversight and monitoring and lacks asset management oversight functions. There are many concerns around the workings of NAMA.

Cerberus expects to make a large fortune from the purchase of Project Eagle. The £7 million that ended up in an Isle of Man bank account will begin to look like small change. The big loser, though, is the Irish taxpayer in the South. NAMA says the sale of Project Eagle was lawful, but was the purchase lawful? I would have thought that a Fine Gael Government would have a bit more concern about slush moneys for fixers. I doubt the Taoiseach has heard the last of Project Eagle.

Does the Taoiseach know how many barristers, judges, solicitors, top-four accountancy firm partners and bankers are in syndicates which have been set up by Goodbody Stockbrokers, Anglo Private, Bank of Ireland Private, AIB Private, Davy, Warren and Quinlan which have transferred to NAMA but which NAMA has not enforced, despite personal guarantees being attached? NAMA is responsible for some people being tossed out of their homes, but it looks like some of the great and good of Irish society are blessed with NAMA’s goodwill.

What role did a former Secretary General of the Department of Finance, John Moran, play in NAMA’s handling of the Coroin group’s portfolio? This gentleman remarked at one stage that the number of home repossessions in Ireland was unnaturally low. It would appear he was unnaturally interested in playing a significant role in the outcome of the Coroin group’s portfolio.

All is not well. I know of a construction company, Taoiseach, which wanted to exit out of NAMA, so it asked the manager of its portfolio if it could happen and he said, "Yes, but it will cost you €15,000 in cash and I want it in a bag".

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. If you have these sorts of charges, can I suggest you give them to An Garda Síochána because they cannot be substantiated here?

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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The Deputy should go before the Committee of Public Accounts with this information. He is grandstanding here.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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A few weeks later, they delivered the money. A few weeks later he demanded the same again. They duly obliged and all was sorted - a small window into the workings of NAMA. Is the Taoiseach still happy with the workings of this secret society?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has made a number of comments and allegations here regarding people working in different sectors, including members of the Judiciary. He made comments in respect of a former Secretary General of the Department of Finance, as well as comments generally in respect of NAMA.

Let me repeat again for him. The process of accountability and transparency in this jurisdiction in respect of NAMA is the Committee of Public Accounts in the Oireachtas, chaired by a Member of this House. Personnel from the Comptroller and Auditor General’s office work with NAMA and have access to all the papers and documents relevant to any of these transactions.

I would suggest that, as a public representative, the Deputy has a facility where questions can follow his allegations. He should go to Deputy McGuinness’s committee, the Committee of Public Accounts, a committee of long-standing integrity in this House. The Deputy can make his claims, ask his questions. The Chairman of the committee, with his members, is entitled to call in personnel in respect of the issues the Deputy raised.

The Deputy has made some serious claims here. I do not have the detailed responses to them. The Committee of Public Accounts is the authorised independent entity in the Oireachtas for accountability and transparency in respect of NAMA. I suggest to Deputy Wallace that in the interest of public accountability and transparency, he goes to the committee, presents his findings and facts - if facts they are - and allow the Chairman and his committee to do their work in the interests of their political responsibility here.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I can only come to the conclusion that the Taoiseach does not seem awfully interested in getting to the truth. There is a stark contrast between how Northern Ireland is dealing with this and how the Government is dealing with it.

Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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The committee is in the North.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Can the Taoiseach tell me why did Mr. Frank Daly tell the Committee of Public Accounts that he did not know about the alleged £7 million in the Isle of Man bank account until I mentioned it? I know for a fact that NAMA-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry, but this is Leaders' Questions.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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-----knew this last January. What did it do about it? Did it tell the Minister for Finance or did it bury it with the rest of it? Mr. Coulter has denied the involvement of a politician. Well, he would, would he not? I decided to contact my sources this morning and ask them to what degree of certainty they could stand over the involvement of a particular politician. Their reply was, "Is 100% enough?". The Taoiseach has serious problems. Does he want answers to them? Do not bother asking me, Taoiseach, to go to the Garda-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, but this is no way to be dealing with such a serious issue. The Deputy cannot use the Chamber as a Star Chamber where no evidence is presented. The Deputy is affecting people's reputations here. He has not presented any solid facts.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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The facts are not the-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow this to continue in this Chamber. I would not mind, but this has been set up as the big issue of the day. We cannot have that.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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It is not being set up by Deputy Wallace.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is Leaders' Questions, which is designed that the Taoiseach is asked questions that he can answer.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He should answer them, then.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please proceed on that basis.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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The Taoiseach has not done a great job on it, has he?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He never answers.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If Deputy Wallace has further problems, please go to An Garda Síochána or the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts-----

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It would be difficult to find his answer to that question.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach never answers questions.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and deal with them in the proper fashion.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We went to the committee but we did not get answers.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not want this to be some sort of Star Chamber.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace is entitled to raise issues.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Mattie will bring it.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What? What is wrong with the Chief Whip?

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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I will ask the Taoiseach again whether he is prepared to set up an independent commission of investigation. If he wants the truth, that is what he will have to do. The people would like him to do that. He owes it to them.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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NAMA came to the Oireachtas last week and felt it was out of the woods leaving here, but do you know what, Taoiseach? The trees are only starting to grow.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has stood up again now and he has made further allegations. I do not speak for anybody in Northern Ireland in regard to this. There is a criminal investigation going on there. As I understand it from yesterday's discussion here, there are no allegations against NAMA or personnel down here. I read out what the chronology of the actions of the Minister for Finance was-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are serious questions.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are 13 Garda investigations.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputies, please.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----following the process down here. Now, let me repeat what I said to Deputy McDonald yesterday. Deputy Wallace now tells me that he has facts. He now tells me that he has been checking with his sources. He has a duty and a responsibility to bring that to the attention of the accountable body in this Oireachtas, and that is the Committee of Public Accounts.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The Taoiseach has a duty to set up an inquiry.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Exactly.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach should do what Deputy Wallace is asking him to do.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hold on a second.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace has a responsibility to raise it in this House.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He has asked the Taoiseach to set up an inquiry.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Wallace is making allegations and assumptions in the middle of which he said he had facts. Well, I say to Deputy Wallace-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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He is quite entitled to raise these matters.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----he has a duty to bring those allegations or those assertions or those facts to the accountable body in this Oireachtas, that is, the Committee of Public Accounts. The Chairman, who is present, with his members has full authority to follow through on those allegations-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have been told that we cannot.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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How did the Government set up the banking inquiry?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----assertions or assumptions that Deputy Wallace makes.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
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The finance committee does not have the expertise.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I understand it, there is no basis for any criminal charge that I have heard, either against NAMA or anybody associated with it or the Minister for Finance or anybody in the Department of Finance.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is enough there for a commission of investigation.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, United Left)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Is the Taoiseach not interested in finding out the truth?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If Deputy Wallace has evidence to the contrary, he should bring it to the attention of the Garda if it is criminal or bring it to the attention of Deputy-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

McGuinness.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

John McGuinness.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----John McGuinness, Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts in the Oireachtas.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach's belated endorsement of Deputy McGuinness is noted.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is Deputy Wallace's duty and responsibility, and everybody-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin is a bit sensitive to that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----will be supportive of that-----

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy McGuinness told Deputy Martin to step back.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----but we need to hear more than allegations or assertions or assumptions.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Step back. That is the problem. We are stepping back all the time.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If Deputy Wallace has facts and he has sources that he can check are authentic, he should bring them to the notice of the Chairman.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If the Taoiseach wants the truth, he will set up a commission of investigation.