Dáil debates
Wednesday, 1 July 2015
Environment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014: Motion to Recommit
3:35 pm
Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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I move:
That in accordance with Standing Order 134(1), the Environment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014 be recommitted in its entirety.On Committee Stage, we were told as a by-the-way at the end of Committee Stage rather than at the beginning that there would be changes to the Bill. We were not told there would be substantial changes. The process is technically very flawed and for that reason I am seeking to have the Bill recommitted to Committee Stage.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach committed to do that.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed, Minister of State?
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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It is not agreed.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister of State why it is not agreed.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I just asked the Minister of State.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Minister of State give an explanation for not agreeing to that?
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I put it to the House; is that agreed?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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A Leas-Cheann Comhairle-----
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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It is not agreed.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Ó Cuív.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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This morning I read into the record what was said on Committee Stage. It was clearly indicated on Committee Stage that all that was involved were technicalities. The least the House is owed is a detailed explanation of why, in view of the misleading information given on Committee Stage the Bill is not being recommitted to Committee Stage. The Minister of State owes it to the House to explain that in detail.
3:40 pm
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We deserve an answer to this. In the response to the complaints made about the manner in which the Minister at the last minute put in these very substantial amendments the line the Government gave out was that all this was well flagged. That was the line repeated ad nauseam at the weekend by the media, that all these changes were well flagged. Can the Minister of State explain why, if they were "well flagged", as some Ministers suggested since last year, they were not in the initial Bill or introduced on Committee Stage? If the Minister of State had them already why did he hold off with these substantial amendments and bring them in literally at the deadline of 11 a.m. on the morning after which no further amendments can be put in by the Opposition? Why would he do that-----
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It was a political stunt.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----unless he was attempting to deliberately bypass the Second and Committee Stage debates where there would be proper scrutiny, oversight and debate on those issues? There can be no other explanation. If the Minister of State believes in the democratic process and a proper legislative procedure, this Bill has to go back to Committee Stage when we can properly scrutinise these amendments.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is clear from the Minister of State’s reaction that he wanted to brush off Deputy Catherine Murphy’s most reasonable request that, given the antics and manoeuvres of Government, the content of the amendments and the length of some of them, at the very least we should, and the public might, expect a full and thorough Committee Stage consideration of each amendment. The Minister of State is quite happy to brush off Deputy Murphy and to say he was not accepting that proposal. I do not think he had the first clue why he was saying that. I saw him furiously looking for guidance from his officials. It is not good enough for the Minister of State and his mob in government-----
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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That is rich coming from Sinn Féin.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Yesterday it was arseholes, today it is mobs.
Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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Says the expert on mobs.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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If that is not parliamentary language, I put it to the Minister of State that this is not correct parliamentary procedure. What is going on here is not worthy of any assembly that would have even the pretence of going through proper democratic processes and oversight.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The armalite in one hand and the ballot box in the other.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is right Deputy Bannon.
Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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It is time Deputy Bannon woke up.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Catherine Murphy and the Opposition are quite right to insist that this matter go to Committee Stage. Can we have a full and detailed explanation from the Minister of State of why he and the Government have proceeded in this manner and why he feels we are not due, and the citizens and taxpayers in this jurisdiction cannot expect, a proper Committee Stage debate on this issue, because his mob does not like what needs to be said?
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Socialist Party)
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I support the motion and I will be interested in hearing a Government response, and a response from the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Kelly, who has driven this. I remind the Deputies of what the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, said on Committee Stage. He stated, “This Bill is quite technical. There are some typographical issues. It will really be a question of dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The scope of the Bill does not allow for the Bill to be changed in any huge way. The Bill itself is very technical.” What we have here is not just a huge changing of the Bill but another Bill entirely, brought in under the Environment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014. This is the water services (No.3) Bill that the Government promised us. It has now come by way of an amendment to a completely different Bill. The purpose of it is entirely transparent, it is to avoid any proper scrutiny here. It may result in any subsequent Act being open to a legal challenge and it is to avoid scrutiny by the public and the response of the public who are gathering for a protest at 6 p.m. outside this building. The Minister of State should answer and the Government should accept this proposal.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It is a political stunt.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On Committee State, Deputy Phelan stated, “This Bill is quite technical. There are some typographical issues. It will really be a question of dotting the i's and crossing the t's. The scope of the Bill does not allow for the Bill to be changed in any huge way. The Bill itself is very technical-----
Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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What is the Deputy saying about the motion?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----we will be proposing amendments. The Deputies will have plenty of time to consider them.” The Minister of State said at that time that there would be no big change to the Bill but that it would be a matter of dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should read all of the text.
Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Deputy should read all of the text.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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When we raised this operation yesterday, and the way the Government was proposing to deal with this legislation, the Taoiseach said it was open to the Opposition to propose to recommit it to Committee Stage.
Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Yes but the Deputy should read all of the text.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The implication was that it would be recommitted. He did not definitively say it but he gave that as his way out of the leaders’ questions on this yesterday.
Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Where does the text say anything about being promoted?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He strongly implied that it could be recommitted because this is very sharp practice. Deputy Phelan said what she said. Deputy Coffey is here and the Minister is notable by his silence. The whole point was to smuggle through this legislation pertaining to Irish Water, hopefully without anybody noticing, and with the Minister well in the background.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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In the best Fianna Fáil tradition.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This issue has been badly handled from day one over two years ago when it first came into the House and was rammed through. The Minister of State should give an adequate response saying why he will not allow it to be recommitted given that the amendments are new, very substantive and have been visited upon us for the first time on Report Stage.
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I am happy to clarify for the Deputies opposite that these amendments have been well flagged.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There it is again “well flagged”.
Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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A white flag.
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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They were flagged and provided in writing to the Deputies opposite within the required timeframe under Standing Orders but also on 26 May on Committee Stage. I see that the Deputies opposite are choosing the text they wish to choose. I will quote the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, from that committee meeting when she said-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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At the end of the meeting.
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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-----when she said:
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I heard it.
Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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She said:
I want to point out to the committee that while the Government is not presenting any amendments to the Bill at this stage in the process, it intends to propose a number of amendments on Report Stage in the Dáil. This will require a motion to be tabled to amend the Long Title and scope of the Bill. These amendments will cover a range of issues, including further amendments to waste legislation and provisions . . . We intend to make further amendments to waste legislation and to include provisions relating to water services legislation.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is unprecedented.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It was in response to that Deputy Catherine Murphy asked about the scope and the Minister of State said the changes were technical. Deputy Coffey, should read the full report. I read it into the Official Report this morning. When she was asked to clarify her initial statement she was told-----
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle should put the question.
3:55 pm
Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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As a teller, under Standing Order 69 I propose that the vote be taken by other than electronic means, because of the critical nature of bypassing a whole section of the process.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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As Deputy Murphy is entitled to call a vote through the lobby, we will take that vote now.
Tá
- Gerry Adams
- Bobby Aylward
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Tommy Broughan
- Dara Calleary
- Niall Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Ruth Coppinger
- Clare Daly
- Dessie Ellis
- Martin Ferris
- Michael Fitzmaurice
- Terence Flanagan
- Tom Fleming
- Noel Grealish
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Pádraig MacLochlainn
- Charlie McConalogue
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Finian McGrath
- John McGuinness
- Micheál Martin
- Michael Moynihan
- Catherine Murphy
- Paul Murphy
- Denis Naughten
- Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
- Éamon Ó Cuív
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
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- Shane Ross
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Níl
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