Dáil debates
Thursday, 28 May 2015
Order of Business
12:50 pm
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Order of Business shall be as follows: No. c13, motion re modification of referral to select sub-committee of the proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the terms of the Statute of the International Renewable Energy Agency, IRENA; No. 13, motion re proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Companies Act 2014 (Section 1313) regulations 2015 (back from committee); No. a13, motion re approval by Dáil Éireann of general principles of disposal of shares in Aer Lingus Group plc (resumed); No. 39, Health (General Practitioner Service) Bill 2015 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No. 5, Communications Regulation (Postal Services) (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage; and No. 6, Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2015 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: Nos. c13 and 13 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings in relation to No. a13 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.42 p.m. today; and the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 9 June, 2015.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. c13 and 13 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. a13 agreed to?
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We do not agree. Not all the facts about the proposed sale of Aer Lingus are available to Members of the House or to the Irish people. If we are to discharge our duties in line with our mandate, we need the information. I have additional sections of the Nyras report, if the Tánaiste wants it. I tried to give it to the Tánaiste earlier, but was prevented from doing so by the Clerk Assistant of the House, which I will deal with later.
Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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That is disgraceful.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is a threat.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It would be appropriate-----
Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It is not an appropriate remark.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, it is. It is truthful. I ask the Tánaiste to get the little chirpy man beside her to stop talking while I am addressing her. I ask the Tánaiste to delay the decision to have the vote cast later today to allow the transport committee an opportunity to peruse all the details, to sit next week to address the matter and to allow for a reasoned debate.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, while I have the utmost respect for my colleague across the House, Deputy Timmy Dooley, in the heat of the moment said he would deal with the Clerk Assistant of the House later.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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He let himself down.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It was a threat. I ask him to now withdraw this remark against a civil servant.
1:00 pm
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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For clarification purposes, I intend to address the matter with the clerk to understand how he was in a position to prevent me from passing information to the Tánaiste through an usher but he could allow another usher to enter the Chamber to provide other documentation for the Tánaiste. As a Member of the House, I have been disenfranchised and would like an explanation. To address Deputy Bernard J. Durkan's concerns, I have explained what I meant.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is in the context of a threat. He should withdraw it.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, Deputy Timmy Dooley should be asked to withdraw the remark that he would be dealing with the clerk.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Did the Minister of State ever withdraw allegations made by him?
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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In case there is any misunderstanding, does Deputy Timmy Dooley withdraw his first comment?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Withdraw.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Clearly, the Chief Whip has a difficulty in understanding the basic elements of the English language. When I said I would deal with the matter later, as I outlined through the Chair, it pertained to my inability to pass documents to the Tánaiste through an usher because I was prevented from doing so by the clerk.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy said he would deal with the clerk.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Another set of documents was presented to the Tánaiste by a different usher without intervention by the clerk.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I did not have that information.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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That is unacceptable. It is an infringement of my rights and I want an explanation from the clerk, either in writing or verbally.
Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Deputy is trying to pull a political stunt.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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To clarify -----
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I was alluding to that matter, but, unfortunately-----
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Deputy's point of order has been clarified.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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-----there has been an attempt by elements in the Government to disenfranchise Members on this side of the House on an ongoing basis.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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That is not the issue. I ask the Deputy to clarify -----
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He should withdraw the remark.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Can I be any more clear?
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is not referring to anything other than raising the issue.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I am seeking an explanation for the way in which the clerk dealt with the matter.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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That is fair enough.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, the Deputy opposite made a threat that he would deal with the clerk.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I did not do that.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should be asked to withdraw it.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The Whip makes threats every day.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Timmy Dooley threatened the clerk.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I did no such thing.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should withdraw the remark.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Chief Whip to withdraw his remark.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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He has had to withdraw stuff before.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, Deputy Timmy Dooley made a serious threat-----
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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We now seem to have two threats. We cannot allow this to continue. Deputy Timmy Dooley is clarifying what he said. He is withdrawing any question of a threat.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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There was never a question in that regard. I clarified that I intended to seek an explanation as to why I was unable to pass documents to the Tánaiste and others.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has agreed to withdraw it.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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On a point of order, I suggest there is too much testosterone in this Chamber.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I would not know.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have never heard anything as ludicrous as the last exchange.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should speak to No. 2 on the Order Paper.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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On which side?
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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On all bloody sides. I object to the motion and the manner in which it is being handled. We have been asked to deal with a very serious decision with long-term consequences for workers, pensioners and the State in a manner that is wholly unsatisfactory and without sight of relevant and necessary documentation. Whereas the Government might be happy to rely on the shifting and qualified assurances given by the current CEO of Aer Lingus, that attitude is not shared by Sinn Féin Members and, I suspect, other Opposition Members or the general public.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I call Deputy Ruth Coppinger on behalf of the Democratic Socialist Party.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I am speaking on behalf of the Socialist Party.
Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It was never democratic.
John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Leas-Cheann Comhairle should withdraw that remark. The Socialist Party was never democratic.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I will ignore the hecklers, both politically and in every other way.
I object to the manner in which the motion is being steamrolled through the Dáil. We should not be holding a vote on the issue today because it has become abundantly clear that the debate in the past 24 hours is not supported by information, documents or the letters of comfort and assurance the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport tells us he possesses. Where else have we heard about letters of comfort and assurance? The motion is being rushed through to prevent the communities, workers and families of Aer Lingus staff from putting pressure on Labour Party Deputies, in particular. Those Deputies are breaking a promise they made nine years ago when their then leader, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, jumped up and down to object to the sale of 75% of Aer Lingus. They are now saying Fianna Fáil put two bullets into the horse and even though the Labour Party is going to shoot the final bullet, they will not be the murderers. I am sorry to tell them that they will. They are putting the final nail into the coffin of public control over Aer Lingus. Will they, please, not confuse the issue? They could have sought to increase Government ownership of Aer Lingus by buying shares in the company, as recommended by the economist Paul Sweeney. It is a very important company for the country and one of the top 20 indigenous companies. This is treachery on the part of the Labour Party and we should not vote on the issue until the communities of Dublin West, Dublin North, Cork and Shannon have had a chance to ask their Deputies about it.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Deputy has proposed that the Government spend €1 billion, money which would be taken from health, education and the care services to which Deputy Sean Fleming referred earlier. That may be the policy of a democratic socialist party, but I do not think at a time of scarce resources when families need more investment in education services, particularly in Dublin West, we should divert €1 billion to buy Aer Lingus.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The question was about taking a vote today. Will the Tánaiste answer the question?
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has the floor.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Hold your horses.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We have protections for workers in Aer Lingus which they did not have for decades in regard to registered employment agreements.
Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Answer the question.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We have guarantees on connectivity and the Heathrow Airport slots which we did not previously have.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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No, you do not.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We have ambitious plans to expand employment.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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The Tánaiste is misleading the House.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In the next few years 635 jobs will be created in Aer Lingus, many of them high level jobs such as pilots, cabin crew and engineers.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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Rubbish.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We will see far more business as a result in terms of tourism and investment, but the employment will be more secure and there will be connectivity through the slots-----
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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The Tánaiste is misleading the House.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----through the mechanism of the B share which offers a higher guarantee than what currently applies.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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There is no such thing as a B share. There is no basis for it in law.
Tá
- James Bannon
- Joan Burton
- Ray Butler
- Catherine Byrne
- Eric Byrne
- Joe Carey
- Michael Conaghan
- Paul Connaughton
- Ciara Conway
- Noel Coonan
- Michael Creed
- John Deasy
- Pat Deering
- Robert Dowds
- Bernard Durkan
- Alan Farrell
- Frank Feighan
- Anne Ferris
- Frances Fitzgerald
- Peter Fitzpatrick
- Eamon Gilmore
- Brendan Griffin
- Dominic Hannigan
- Noel Harrington
- Simon Harris
- Martin Heydon
- Heather Humphreys
- Kevin Humphreys
- Derek Keating
- Paul Kehoe
- Seán Kyne
- John Lyons
- Gabrielle McFadden
- Dinny McGinley
- Joe McHugh
- Michael McNamara
- Eamonn Maloney
- Mary Mitchell O'Connor
- Michelle Mulherin
- Dara Murphy
- Dan Neville
- Derek Nolan
- Michael Noonan
- Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
- Patrick O'Donovan
- Fergus O'Dowd
- Joe O'Reilly
- Willie Penrose
- John Perry
- Ann Phelan
- Pat Rabbitte
- James Reilly
- Brendan Ryan
- Emmet Stagg
- David Stanton
- Leo Varadkar
- Jack Wall
- Brian Walsh
- Alex White
Níl
- Bobby Aylward
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Tommy Broughan
- John Browne
- Dara Calleary
- Joan Collins
- Niall Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Ruth Coppinger
- Barry Cowen
- Lucinda Creighton
- Seán Crowe
- Stephen Donnelly
- Timmy Dooley
- Dessie Ellis
- Martin Ferris
- Michael Fitzmaurice
- Terence Flanagan
- Tom Fleming
- Noel Grealish
- John Halligan
- Séamus Healy
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Colm Keaveney
- Billy Kelleher
- Séamus Kirk
- Michael Lowry
- Pádraig MacLochlainn
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Finian McGrath
- Mattie McGrath
- Sandra McLellan
- Micheál Martin
- Peter Mathews
- Catherine Murphy
- Paul Murphy
- Denis Naughten
- Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
- Willie O'Dea
- Maureen O'Sullivan
- Róisín Shortall
- Brendan Smith
- Brian Stanley
- Robert Troy
1:15 pm
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Is the proposal that the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 9 June 2015 agreed to?
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is not agreed. In light of the difficulties we have had in convincing the Government to have an appropriate debate on the Aer Lingus sale and its unwillingness to utilise the committee structure-----
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil had nobody in the Chamber yesterday evening.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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-----we believe the House should sit next week-----
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Nobody.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Be careful, James.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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-----to continue that debate rather than having it guillotined at the end of today. It is worth noting that since before Easter, a period of 70 days, this House will have only sat for 18 days up to 9 June.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Hypocrisy.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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That is notwithstanding the commitments this Government made to longer sitter periods and greater numbers of sittings on Fridays.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil was probably only here for nine of those days.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is still trying to railroad through this House important decisions that need to be appropriately debated and addressed. We are seeing it again today and we saw it with the Irish Water and so many other Bills that were guillotined and forced through the House without appropriate debate.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Shameful.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is on that basis that our party is opposing the notion of taking next week off.
Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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It is absolute nonsense.
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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At the same time, the Government is ramming through a decision that will have long-term and profound effects, not just for the workers in the airline but for the island of Ireland.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We are sitting 20% more than when the Deputy's party was in government.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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All I can say is that legislation has been truncated or collapsed on several occasions recently in the House because, in particular, nobody from the Deputy's party was around.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not true.
Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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It is untrue.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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It had nobody here last night.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Yesterday evening-----
Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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That is a big fat lie.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The list is there on the record-----
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Independents have many Bills ready.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----of the Dáil. For example, I am not aware there were any Fianna Fáil people in the House yesterday evening for significant sections of the debate, not even a lonely spokesperson.
Tá
- James Bannon
- Joan Burton
- Ray Butler
- Catherine Byrne
- Eric Byrne
- Joe Carey
- Michael Conaghan
- Paul Connaughton
- Ciara Conway
- Noel Coonan
- Michael Creed
- John Deasy
- Pat Deering
- Paschal Donohoe
- Robert Dowds
- Bernard Durkan
- Alan Farrell
- Frank Feighan
- Anne Ferris
- Frances Fitzgerald
- Eamon Gilmore
- Brendan Griffin
- Dominic Hannigan
- Noel Harrington
- Simon Harris
- Martin Heydon
- Heather Humphreys
- Kevin Humphreys
- Derek Keating
- Paul Kehoe
- Seán Kyne
- John Lyons
- Gabrielle McFadden
- Dinny McGinley
- Joe McHugh
- Michael McNamara
- Eamonn Maloney
- Mary Mitchell O'Connor
- Michelle Mulherin
- Dara Murphy
- Dan Neville
- Derek Nolan
- Michael Noonan
- Aodhán Ó Ríordáin
- Patrick O'Donovan
- Fergus O'Dowd
- Joe O'Reilly
- Willie Penrose
- John Perry
- Ann Phelan
- James Reilly
- Brendan Ryan
- Emmet Stagg
- David Stanton
- Leo Varadkar
- Jack Wall
- Brian Walsh
- Alex White
Níl
- Bobby Aylward
- Richard Boyd Barrett
- Tommy Broughan
- John Browne
- Dara Calleary
- Niall Collins
- Michael Colreavy
- Ruth Coppinger
- Barry Cowen
- Lucinda Creighton
- Seán Crowe
- Stephen Donnelly
- Timmy Dooley
- Dessie Ellis
- Martin Ferris
- Michael Fitzmaurice
- Terence Flanagan
- Tom Fleming
- Noel Grealish
- John Halligan
- Séamus Healy
- Michael Healy-Rae
- Colm Keaveney
- Billy Kelleher
- Séamus Kirk
- Michael Lowry
- Pádraig MacLochlainn
- Mary Lou McDonald
- Finian McGrath
- Mattie McGrath
- Sandra McLellan
- Micheál Martin
- Peter Mathews
- Catherine Murphy
- Paul Murphy
- Denis Naughten
- Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
- Seán Ó Fearghaíl
- Aengus Ó Snodaigh
- Jonathan O'Brien
- Willie O'Dea
- Maureen O'Sullivan
- Róisín Shortall
- Brendan Smith
- Brian Stanley
- Robert Troy