Dáil debates
Wednesday, 9 April 2014
Order of Business
12:20 pm
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 4, Central Bank Bill 2014 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. Private Members' business shall be No. 45, Wind Turbine Regulation Bill 2014 - Second Stage (Resumed), to conclude at 9 p.m. tonight, if not previously concluded.
Tomorrow's business after Oral Questions shall be No. a1, Fines (Payment and Recovery) Bill 2013 - Amendments from the Seanad; No. 3, Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Bill 2014 - Second Stage (Resumed); and No. 4a, Electoral (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2014 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are no proposals to be put to the House.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government's proposals vis-à-visthe introduction of universal health insurance are causing considerable concern out there in terms of the implications of such an initiative on people's incomes, additional taxes that will emanate from it and also the lack of detail in terms of the pricing arrangements and the actual packages under which people will be covered. I ask the Minister, in terms of the allocation of Government time for debate, when it is proposed there will be a Dáil debate on this, and to help along the Dáil debate itself, and the public consultations that may ensue, would the Government be open to allowing the views of the Minister for Finance and of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, and the memorandums that they prepared on this issue, to be published to give people the broadest and most diverse set of perspectives on this policy issue? Given the enormity of the issue, and its importance, that would be a welcome development if the various perspectives of the ministries could be put into the open to facilitate that debate.
In terms of the Government's legislative commitment to the introduction of free GP care for the under sixes, I am sure the Minister will be aware that GPs are up in arms, metaphorically speaking.
They are very angry at the way they are being treated and undermined. Serious issues are emanating from it. Will the Government indicate when the legislation will be introduced? Is the Government aware of the anger among GPs at what they perceive as the undermining of primary care and the undermining of discretionary medical cards and their removal from needy and sick people?
12:30 pm
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I understand the Whips are meeting this afternoon and the item on universal health insurance is one of the items to be discussed. The likelihood is arrangements will be made to have a discussion next week.
Regarding free GP care for those under six years of age, legislation is coming to Cabinet in the coming weeks and will provide a statutory basis for this.
Myself and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, have the same attitude to universal health insurance as to all legislation. We want to make sure costs are controlled but that is our general position across all legislation and policy brought before the Government. Under the new fiscal arrangements, we are operating under expenditure ceilings and it is our job to ensure the expenditure ceilings are not breached in any way. We scrutinise all measures on that basis but we are fully in support of the initiative. No one suggests that we can continue with the health service we have and everyone agrees it needs to be reformed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Government publish the memos?
Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We do not want to go back to the way it was when Deputy Noonan was the Minister for Health.
John Deasy (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy beside Deputy Dooley was also the Minister for Health and Children.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the terms of reference for the commission of investigation into the recording of telephone calls in Garda stations were released and I am interested to know when they will be debated in the House for its approval. In the context of that debate, can the Minister for Finance confirm whether there is a system in place in any other Department or State agency, particularly the Revenue Commissioners, that records phone calls from members of the public without their knowledge, whether the Minister for Finance is aware of that and whether it is in compliance with data protection laws?
The second issue concerns the crisis in primary care in the GP sector. I have attended meetings with general practitioners who gave a summary of the 38% cuts, which started under the Fianna Fáil Administration. Legislation on the Order Paper, No. 115, emanated from Deputy Emmet Stagg. It amends the Competition Act and allows GPs to bargain collectively, along with other organisations funded by the State purse. Is it the intention of the Government to allow that legislation to progress, as was committed to in the first Croke Park Agreement?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The debate on the terms of reference of the Justice Fennelly inquiry will take place next week. The terms of reference will be presented in the House by way of a motion because the terms of reference need the approval of the House.
I have no information that anyone in the State agencies which report to me is involved in the kind of malpractice Deputy Doherty describes. If it is illegal, it is illegal and I have no information to that effect.
With regard to GP care, legislation will come before Government and will be debated in the Houses in the normal way.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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My question was not about the GP legislation the Government is introducing but specifically No. 115, an amendment to the Competition Act.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister said the Government is introducing legislation.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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No, it is a separate issue, allowing for collective bargaining.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I will get back to the Deputy. There is no Bill No. 115 on the Government legislative programme.
Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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When will the State airports (Shannon group) Bill be enacted? It is important legislation and the final part of the jigsaw that will see the restructuring of Shannon. The Minister has a special interest in it, coming from the midwest.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The deputy Chief Whip also has a good interest in it.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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That Bill is well advanced and will be going to Government shortly. Then, it will be brought to the House.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I welcome the Minister taking Leaders' Questions and the Order-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not taking Leaders' Questions, we are taking the Order of Business. I want to clarify it for the Deputy's sake in case he is getting mixed up.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle. I appreciate the reorientation course. I have just been at a funeral and I came in late. The Government's intention to hold a banking inquiry seems to have got clogged in a swamp and does not seem to be getting anywhere. Yesterday, today and tomorrow, the banks' chief executives and senior management teams are appearing before the committee to explain where they are in terms of meeting the mortgage crisis, with 180,000 families in deep distress. On my way in and on his way out, I met the chief executive of Permanent TSB on the steps, he recognised me immediately and he said to me-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, this is the Order of Business and we are talking about legislation.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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This is very much the Order of Business.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are talking about promised legislation.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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We have a promised banking inquiry under promised legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Okay, the Deputy can ask a question on the banking inquiry.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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No, I want to know this about it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot make a speech about it.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I am not making a speech.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are dying to find out what happened.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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There has been a seeming inability to understand that the banking boards of banks, for seven years leading up to 2008-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No-----
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Ceann Comhairle, please-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, there is no please about it. I must be fair to everybody. The Order of Business is the Order of Business and it is not for people to stand up and make speeches on issues that they have deep concern about, which I fully understand. If the Deputy wants to ask the Minister when the banking inquiry will commence, that is in order within the Order of Business but not about who the Deputy met on the steps.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I have sat in that chair-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Now, Deputy-----
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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-----and I have never caused people to laugh at a Member.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat, please.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I will in a moment.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will do it now, when I ask him to do so.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I will do it in a moment.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will not do it in a moment, he will do it now. Please switch off the microphones.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I do not need a microphone.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot abuse the Order of Business. Please resume your seat. The query was about the banking inquiry and I asked the Minister to respond. We are not having speeches.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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It is a matter of fact that, on average, of the asset price collapse in this country the banks caused-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy resume his seat for goodness sake and stop being out of order?
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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People are paying for that. The faster the inquiry gets going, the better for 180,000 people.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should resume his seat. I will not ask him again.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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That was an unfortunate episode. Thank you.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Mathews should not be surprised at how well known he is.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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That is a wonderful joke.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The banking inquiry is at an advanced planning stage and is making progress.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Will it beat the statute of limitations?
Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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With regard to the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, Threshold published a report last week showing only 147 properties available to rent in Galway city. I presume that is repeated in other cities. It is causing a major problem for the people on the housing waiting list. Rental prices are increasing.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Where are we going?
Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Will this be dealt with under the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill? This is having a major effect on inward investment in Galway because soon there will be no properties to let. Can the issue be addressed under the Bill?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The heads of the housing Bill were cleared in December and publication is expected in May.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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In recent times, increased activity in the housing market has given a new impetus and importance to the taking in charge of estates. The Planning and Development Act 2000 places full responsibility on the local authority for the taking in charge of all services but the Water Services Act 2013 transfers water services to Irish Water. I understand the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government will bring forward some sort of protocol to address this anomaly which, in many instances, may give rise to the sale of houses being prevented from taking place.
It will create a situation where the taking in charge of estates will be much more difficult. Will a protocol be introduced by the Department or will the matter be addressed in the context of the planning Bill which is promised at No. 86 on the legislative list?
12:40 pm
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, but I am not familiar with the commitment from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to bring forward such a protocol. I will get back to the Deputy with the details.
Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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As the Minister is aware, the volume of receiverships among private individuals and corporate entities has risen sharply in recent years as a result of the property crash. It is having an impact on many organisations, not least of which are the banks but also the Revenue Commissioners. The Minister initiated-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Where is the Deputy going with this question?
Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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I wish to ask about consultation and legislation. The Minister initiated a consultation process-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, but the Deputy should ask a question about legislation.
Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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What is the status of the process and will measures be included in the next finance Bill to deal with the problem?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question is not in order on the Order of Business.
Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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It relates to future legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not future legislation.
Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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Is the finance Bill not future legislation?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What I am trying to get across is that one cannot discuss the content of Bills on the Order of Business. Parliamentary questions are designed for that purpose.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The high incidence of receiverships has been a very serious issue, arising, as Deputy Brian Walsh outlined, from the collapse in the economy. If the Deputy has specific measures in mind, he should communicate with me and I will have his proposals assessed in the context of the forthcoming finance Bill.
Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The Government has promised legislation to deal with the admission of patients with mental health issues. We have a huge crisis in hospitals where clients in need of admission are being turned away at accident and emergency services owing to the lack of beds. I have first-hand experience and knowledge of people who are a danger to themselves and others being turned away, purely because there are no beds available in hospitals across the city.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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To which Bill is the Deputy referring?
Dessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I refer to the mental health capacity Bill which has been promised. When will it be delivered? It is clear that many people are dying or self-harming who are being let out of hospital. It is an absolute scandal.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The first Bill is on its way to the committee. It has been before the House for some time now. A second Bill is promised and we should see it in about one month.
Sandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Local authority tenants have been waiting years for the resumption of the right-to-buy scheme. The number of households involved in the shared ownership scheme who are in mortgage arrears continues to be a problem. When will the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill be brought before the House and will it make provision for a building programme to compensate for units sold under an agreed right-to-buy scheme and a solution for the growing number of shared ownership homeowners who have slipped into mortgage arrears?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The Bill will be brought before the House in May.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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When is the proceeds of crime Bill expected to be published to strengthen the powers of the Criminal Assets Bureau in terms of the forfeiting of the proceeds of crime? I thank the Minister for Finance for his work through Revenue to close off the illegal forecourt selling of laundered diesel.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Consultation is ongoing with the Criminal Assets Bureau on the exact formation of the Bill. We do not yet have a publication date.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What progress has been made in the preparation of a Bill on the control of lobbying? Has the Bill been discussed? Have the heads been approved and when is the Bill likely to be brought before the House? Similarly, as I would like to keep to the fore, if possible, old friend of mine - the bail Bill - I ask again if it is intended to have it ready to bring it before the House at an early date.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The Bill in question is at an advanced stage of preparation and the intention is to have it before the House in this session, meaning the session that will endsin July.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister.
Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I wish to ask the Minister about a couple of items of proposed legislation. In the light of the recent establishment of the independent panel to review and analyse the underground option for 400 kV lines as part of the GridLink project, will the Minister update us on the EirGrid Bill? Following the establishment of Irish Water and the transfer of staff from local authorities to it, will the Minister provide an update on the progression of both the planning Bill and the water services (No. 3) Bill?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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There is no publication date for the planning Bill. The water services Bill will be published this year and the EirGrid Bill next year.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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There is a commitment in the programme for Government to review the provision for people with disabilities. It states specifically that as part of the review the Government will move a proportion of public spending to a personal budget model in order that people with disabilities and their families will have the flexibility to make choices that best suit their needs. I agree with the proposal which is a very good one, but we are now three years down the line. When might it become a reality?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I have no information on that matter today. We will revert to the Deputy on it.
Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The programme for Government provides for a policy on mental health to incorporate the recommendations of A Vision for Change. I would be grateful if the Minister confirmed that it was still a Government priority to honour the commitments set out in A Vision for Change. We were promised a review of the Mental Health Act. It was a human rights approach to providing for mental health patients.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Minister, please, respond to the question on mental health legislation?
Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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In the light of reports over the weekend that psychiatric patients had to wait for up to eight days for appropriate bed treatment-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the matter.
Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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-----and suicidal patients were being denied access to beds in this city, when will we see the expedition of the legislation?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Minister, please, respond to the question on the mental health Bill?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The question is associated with the one asked by Deputy Dessie Ellis. A report was due after Christmas, but one of the interested parties looked for an extension of time to enable it to make a submission and the report is now expected within the next month or so.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Moriarty tribunal's report was debated in the House three years ago. It was also referred to the Criminal Assets Bureau, the Revenue and the Director of Public Prosecutions. Three years on has the Government made inquiries to ascertain whether it will be parked to gather dust or if there is active pursuit on the part of the Criminal Assets Bureau, the Director of Public Prosecutions and Revenue of the findings of the tribunal? Reference has been made to the control of lobbying Bill. If such legislation had been in place a number of years ago, perhaps the Moriarty tribunal might not have been established at all. I am interested to hear when the House will receive some report on progress. That is owed to the House because the tribunal was established by it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy, please, ask his question?
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to know when the House will receive a report from the Government on the progress made on the issues I raised in terms of the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Criminal Assets Bureau and Revenue pursuing the findings of the Moriarty tribunal.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Minister answer that question?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The lobbying Bill will be brought before the House before July. On the issues arising from the Moriarty tribunal, I will have to get back to the Deputy or if he tables a question to the appropriate Minister, he might receive a quicker answer.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Peter Mathews has already contributed, but I will allow him in again provided he is in order and does not make a speech.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. It is appreciated. I like cordiality. I have a little paper the Minister might find helpful as a starting point for the banking inquiry.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a total abuse for the Deputy to leave his seat and approach the Minister. He should resume his seat, as he is not allowed to do so. He is totally out of order.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Peter Mathews should be kicked out.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is the last time he will be called. It is an abuse of privilege.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I do not think the Minister was very fair in his remark to me. I am helping him on the starting point for the banking inquiry.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is abusing privilege. He can see the Minister in the lobby. He does not need to march across the Chamber. It is totally against Standing Orders to do so.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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The Minister took advantage of the Chamber to make a joke at me, not with me.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should talk to Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly who is his boss.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I am an Independent. Did the Minister of State not notice?
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Stephen S. Donnelly is your boss.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Members should, please, speak through the Chair.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Whip takes a very bitter approach to these matters.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is not to do it. It is totally out of order and against Standing Orders. I will report it to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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As I am new, I am still learning. Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for pointing it out to me.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy had better learn faster.
Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Independent)
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I am new.
Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Does the Deputy see others doing it every day?
Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to ask the Minister about the wind energy Bill that passed Second Stage in the Seanad 18 months ago. In the light of the fact that the Government confirmed that it would not oppose the latest Opposition Bill on the regulation of wind energy generation and given that it has promised guidelines to regulate the wind energy sector - the guidelines will not be published until after 23 May - will it be upfront and frank and indicate a definitive timeframe for when people will know its position on wind energy projects?
When will we have legislation to deal with wind energy? Will it be brought forward before 23 May, the date of the local elections, or after that date when the local elections are over?
12:50 pm
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Second Stage (resumed) of the Wind Turbine Regulation Bill 2014 is to conclude at 9 p.m. tonight, if not previously concluded. I think the Deputy is referring to a Private Members' Bill. Is that correct, Deputy?
Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Yes - a Bill in the Seanad, and the wind energy guidelines that-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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There is some discussion on that matter to see how it might proceed.
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Minister clarify when the mediation Bill will come before the House? Also, when will Report Stage of the Legal Services Regulation Bill commence?
Michael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The mediation Bill will be before us later on this year. We have no date for the other Bill the Deputy raised.