Dáil debates
Thursday, 20 February 2014
Order of Business
12:40 pm
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re the proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Finance Act 2004 (Section 91) (Deferred Surrender to the Central Fund) Order 2014, back from committee; No. 23, Roads Bill 2014 - Second Stage (resumed); and No. 1, Health Identifiers Bill 2013 [Seanad] - Second Stage.
It is proposed notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 8 shall be decided without debate. Tomorrow's fortnightly Friday business shall be No. 45, Thirty-Fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Judicial Appointments) Bill 2013 - Second Stage; and No. 9, report on organ donation by the Joint Committee on Health and Children.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8 agreed to?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not agreed. Given the statement and the announcement by the Taoiseach yesterday stating that the confidential recipient, Mr. Oliver Connolly, has been relieved-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Hold on a second. This has nothing to do with this motion.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It actually has.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, it has not.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the Ceann Comhairle would just let me-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Well-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I beg the Ceann Comhairle's pardon. I am opposing this on the grounds-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes but it is a motion re proposed approval of the Finance Act.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It has nothing to do with the-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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How does the Ceann Comhairle know? Will he let me finish?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Listen Deputy, would you mind respecting the Chair please?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do respect the Chair. I always respect the Chair.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes, well I am telling you to stick to the motion.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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May I just say, the Ceann Comhairle is too restrictive.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not too restrictive.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have been in this House for a long time. The Ceann Comhairle needs to respect the Opposition's role as well.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Excuse me Deputy, I respect everyone in this House and I expect you to respect the Chair and to respect the rules of the House.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Insult.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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And I do. I oppose this and I am entitled to make a statement on the opposition to this.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is fair enough, but stick to the motion.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is what I was saying but I had not even finished my sentence when I was interrupted.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not entering into another debate about the confidential-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The reason is I find it extraordinary that time has not been made available by the Government for the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, to come into the Chamber today to make a statement on this issue and to answer questions.
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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Hear, hear.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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But that is an entirely separate issue to the-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is an extraordinary situation that the Order of Business-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Resume your seat please.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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----- does not allow for a debate-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are making a joke out of the business.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not making any joke.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Of course you are.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is the Order Paper that is making a joke out of it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you resume your seat please?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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With the greatest of respect, it is the Order Paper that is making a joke of this. He should be in here today.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will suspend the sitting unless the Deputy resumes his seat. This is codology.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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But he should be in here.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sit down and resume your seat.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is the greatest bar. A special notice question was tabled yesterday-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Are you opposing this motion?
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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----- and it was not accepted.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will now put the question.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have been in this House for a long time-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Listen, would you mind-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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----- and on matters of this gravity, Ministers always have come in.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The House is suspended for ten minutes.
12:50 pm
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle, may I raise a point of order-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, you cannot. The Deputy cannot raise a point of order on the resumption of the House. I am putting the question now.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Can we have a reply from the Minister first?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know to what the Minister is being asked to reply.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I reassure Deputy Martin that this is a technical motion in regard to the roll-over of approximately €132 million of capital relating to a number of Departments, which money is already in the Central Fund. This is a purely technical matter which, I am sure, the Deputy will approve of.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Nothing to see, move on.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am now putting the question.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle, may I raise a point of order now?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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On what?
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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On the issue that was discussed earlier.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, I am in the middle of putting a question to the House.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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May I do so when the Cheann Comhairle has disposed of the question?
Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Independent)
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Would Deputy Flanagan like to correct the record himself?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Flanagan cannot be jumping up and down in the middle of my putting a question.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I will treat the Ceann Comhairle with the utmost respect. I really need the matter that was discussed earlier-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy. Would you please resume your seat?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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They are all getting tetchy.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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They are hungry.
Eamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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They are following Deputies opposite.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the Order of Business, Deputy Martin.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Minister ensure that the Government makes time available for a debate on the grave issues that have arisen consequent on the confidential recipient, Mr. Oliver Connolly, being relieved of his duties? Some serious issues have been raised in that context and it is appropriate that Members of this House on all sides would have an opportunity to contribute to such a debate and that the Minister would come into the House and answer questions in that regard. This is a basic request in respect of which there is plenty of precedent. I ask that the Government commit to the provision of time for such a debate.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The issue of a debate is a matter for the Whips. I suggest the matter be dealt with at a Whips' meeting.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter for Government.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Minister has always been willing to come into the House and to attend any committee of the Houses. In fairness to the Minister, he has attended various committees for lengthy periods. The Minister is currently away on EU business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He was at a committee meeting all day yesterday.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Not on this issue.
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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He has not said anything.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He dealt with it in committee yesterday.
Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy needs to get up to speed on matters.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Deputy Durkan like to take the Chair?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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No. I am sorry.
Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is not sorry.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's response to a call for a debate on this matter in the House is that that is a matter for the Whips. Will the Minister support that debate in the context of it being about a person in a key position in relation to a major scandal having been sacked?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I think we have dealt with that matter.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Will Deputy Burton as Minister and speaking on behalf of the Labour Party support the holding of a debate at the earliest opportunity next week?
When will the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill relating to the management of State claims agencies and third party legal costs arising from the tribunals, which I assume is being introduced as a result of the many contested costs as a result of the Moriarty tribunal, be published and will there be pre-legislative consultation on it at committee? It is important that the Taoiseach outline to the House whether he accepts the full findings of the Moriarty tribunal. The Taoiseach has never informed the House that he does accept those findings. It is important in the context of informing the debate on that legislation that he do so.
We are aware that Denis O'Brien has lobbied the Taoiseach-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, would you please-----
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----and the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, in relation to not accepting the findings. It is important the Taoiseach informs the House of his position and that of the Government on the Moriarty Tribunal findings.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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As I said earlier, a debate on the matters raised by the Deputy is a matter for the Whips. An esteemed judge has been appointed to carry out an independent inquiry. I am sure Sinn Féin has confidence in the judge. Perhaps Deputy Doherty would like to make clear as would, perhaps, Fianna Fáil and the Independents that they do have confidence in the judge and the Judiciary in this country.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill is not expected before Easter. As the Deputy will be aware as part of the reformed process in relation to legislation debate on all heads of Bills takes place in committee. On the issue of the Moriarty tribunal findings, the Deputy can raise that issue during the debate, as I am sure he will do.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister accept the findings?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I have spoken on that issue on many occasions. The Deputy can refer to my record in the House on it.
Dominic Hannigan (Meath East, Labour)
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What is the status of the workplace relations Bill, which was expected a couple of years ago?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand work on that Bill is well advanced and that it is expected to come before the House later in this term.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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First, I apologise for any disrespect I may have cast on the Chair earlier this morning. Also, comments were made earlier this morning-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy we are not dealing with comments now. We are dealing with the Order of Business.
Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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-----that cast aspersions-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy has anything further to say he should do so to the Committee on Procedures and Privileges.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The waiting list for social housing is now very lengthy. In this regard and in the context of the Government's commitment to end homelessness by 2016, when will the housing (miscellaneous provisions) (amendment) Bill be introduced? There is an urgent need to have that legislation enacted.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand we will come back to that in the second part-----
Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The second part of what?
1:00 pm
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Before agreeing to the Order of Business, it is entirely appropriate that we would refer to the matter referred to earlier. I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for replying to my correspondence in this matter. You have quite rightly referred the matter for consideration to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges. Can a meeting be convened for today?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not possible.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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These remarks will go unwithdrawn-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not possible to call a meeting today.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Are they more important than the other issues we discussed today?
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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----- in a way that undermines the committee.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter has been referred to the committee to be dealt with.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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On the same issue-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What issue?
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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On the same issue of the impugning of the reputation of a Member-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, we are not dealing with that. It is a matter for the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Is the Deputy the watchdog?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy also wants to make a complaint, he may do so. Because of all the shouting, I did not hear anything.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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He is the new terrier of Fine Gael, the Jack Russell of Fine Gael.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Therefore if the Deputy has a complaint I ask him to refer it to the committee.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I will refer it to that committee. In your capacity as Ceann Comhairle, you might afford the Member opposite the opportunity to withdraw the remark now.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know what remark the Deputy is talking about. I am sorry; I did not hear it. That was my problem. I tried to-----
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Durkan to resume his seat, please.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy. I call Deputy Mattie McGrath.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise a point of order.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not making a fool out of this House.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, I ask you to please listen.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Durkan was not called.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy sitting opposite has repeated the remark since the House resumed.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I did not hear the remarks the Deputy is talking about.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I heard the remarks.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Those remarks are undermining-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will need to suspend the House again if the Deputy does not sit down. I am not putting up with this.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you sit down?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle, you are not being fair to the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you resume your seat? I told you the matter will be dealt with in the proper fashion.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to have that matter addressed now.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I refer to the geothermal Bill. A situation in Tipperary has arisen on payment of charges.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What Bill?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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The geothermal Bill.
Under the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 it has come to my notice that despite requests by many Deputies over the years to have slurry spreading dates changed to non-calendar months-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is the Order of Business.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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------ it has never been brought to Europe by Government.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What Bill is the Deputy discussing?
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am talking about the animal welfare Bill because animals are affected by this.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Talk to the Jack Russell of Fine Gael.
Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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If we all stay quiet Deputy Mattie McGrath's colleague might repeat his remarks.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am delighted that Deputy Mattie McGrath is so concerned about the animals. At least someone in the House is concerned about some living creatures. That seemed to be absent from the debate earlier.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can the Minister please get on with it?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to sit down.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand the geothermal Bill will be later in the year. The Deputy referred to animal welfare legislation; the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013 was enacted last May.
Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Tá a fhios agam.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The HEA is totally at odds with the agency's stated aims regarding enhancing the skills and competence of individual enterprises. We need to develop Ireland as a competitive knowledge-based economy.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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While that is all very interesting, about what Bill is the Deputy talking?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Quinn-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is getting worse.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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When will we have the Higher Education Authority Bill before us?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Ballymagash has nothing on it.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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You are out of order completely today, a Cheann Comhairle.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What Bill is the Deputy talking about?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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You are losing your cool. Keep your hair on.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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What Bill is the Deputy talking about?
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I inquired about the Higher Education Authority Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is grand.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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We need hearing aids for many people in this House.
Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Should have gone to Specsavers.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand the heads of the HEA Bill have been drafted and it should be before the Dáil next year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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To assuage the fears of some Members of the Opposition, it might be helpful to bring in the criminal justice corruption Bill to consolidate and reform all the legislation currently cited as the Prevention of Corruption Acts 1889 to 2010. That should cover the period in question to which the Opposition has been referring. Have the heads of that Bill been approved in Cabinet? When will it be brought before the House?
I also ask about the legislation to provide for the exchange of criminal records information with other EU member states and other designated states. It is the criminal records information systems Bill, which should be very interesting. I am sure all Members of the Opposition will take particular interest in that.
John Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Why is Deputy Durkan interested?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In order to assuage the fears and worries of the Opposition, is it intended to bring that Bill to the House as a matter of urgency?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The heads of the criminal justice corruption Bill were dealt with in July 2012. The pre-legislative committee meetings will take place, but we do not have a date as yet.
I understand that the second Bill should come in April.
Tony McLoughlin (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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When will we see the trusts Bill, to reform and consolidate the law relating to trustees so as to deal better with and protect trust assets?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There is no date for that legislation.
Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Mahon report recommended the establishment of a planning regulator to be charged with carrying out investigations into the planning process where required. This office was approved by Cabinet last year. When will the legislation be published?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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There is a planning Bill proposed, which will deal partly with the implementation of the recommendations from the Mahon report. I do not have a date for that.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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When is the family law Bill, to make provision for pension adjustments in the context of separation agreements and certain other reforms in family law, expected to be published?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand that will happen next year.
Brian Walsh (Galway West, Independent)
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Regarding the health transport Bill, work is under way in the Department of Health to replace motorised transport scheme and the mobility allowance scheme which was suspended late year. When is that Bill expected to be published?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I understand that will happen later in the year.