Dáil debates
Wednesday, 5 October 2011
Topical Issue Debate
Prison Committals
3:00 pm
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Is the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, coming to the House for this debate?
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I understand it is being taken by the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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If it were to be taken by a senior Minister, it would be the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Surely the Minister who is in charge of the ESB is the appropriate one.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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As the Deputies are raising the circumstances of a person who is in jail, it is a justice matter.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The topic is the jailing of Ms Teresa Treacy.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The last I heard, the ESB cannot imprison people.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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It is a justice matter.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I wish to protest. The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, is responsible for the ESB. He should be here.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Government is reverting to the approach of its predecessor, which used to get any old Minister to come in and read out a script. The topical issues format was supposed to involve a meaningful engagement.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I will make my statement anyway.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Each of the four Deputies has just one minute.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I want my strong objection to be noted.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Ms Teresa Treacy is in Mountjoy Jail as we speak. She was thrown in there by order of a judge because she is not prepared to allow the ESB to destroy a swathe of trees through her forest at Clonmore, County Offaly in order to erect massive pylons and power lines. Conifers have already been cut. I have personally seen the destruction that has been done. The next tranche for the chop is a beautiful stand of native Irish broadleaf trees. The ESB has the option of putting the cable under the ground. This should be done for environmental and health reasons. The ESB is a powerful semi-State company. It is outrageous that it is oppressing a powerless citizen in this way. I call on the chief executive of the ESB, Pádraig McManus, to withdraw the injunction and thereby allow Teresa Treacy to be released immediately. All sides could proceed by agreement thereafter. I call on the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, to ensure that happens. It is his responsibility. Finally, is it not striking that the establishment can jail innocent citizens with incredible speed without imposing any such sanction on real criminals whose greed has wrecked our economy and damaged our society?
Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I stand in solidarity with Teresa Treacy, a 65 year old lover of the environment. What I see is a case of David and Goliath. She has been involved in a five year conflict since February 2006. Having started with 90 other landowners who were opposed to the pylons going overground, she is left on her own. The ESB has a choice. It argued initially that placing the cables underground was impossible. However, it later conceded that it could do so, but it would not for cost reasons. The life of this woman has been cut off for the past three weeks and this will continue until she purges her contempt. I ask the Minister to approach the CEO of the ESB to tell him to lift the injunction.
Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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As someone who spent one month in the Dóchas Centre in Mountjoy Prison, I, too, express my solidarity with Teresa Treacy and condemn the decision of the ESB and EirGrid to pursue her in this manner. There is no doubt that the blame comes back to the Minister's door. To have State agencies acting in the manner of bully boys against an elderly, law-abiding, tax-paying citizen is absolutely reprehensible. It is a fact that Mrs. Treacy has offered to forfeit any compensation and have moneys offered to her by the State bodies used to have the cables placed underground and protect the trees on her property. Incidentally, the level of trees in Ireland is well below what it should be and she in, in fact, just fulfilling a civic duty. This matter lies fully at the door of the Government which has overall responsibility for semi-State companies. I ask the Minister to intervene to deal with this scandal.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is an outrage that a 65 year old woman, Teresa Treacy, has been languishing in jail for several weeks because of the ESB's bullying and determination to run overhead power transmission lines through a farm and forest land that she has nurtured and given much of her life to developing. All she is asking, as she has made clear to the ESB for several years, is that the lines be placed underground. It can be done and has often been done in many other places throughout Europe. The lines are simply placed in a trench. There would be less damage to the environment and fewer health and safety implications for people living in the vicinity. It would solve the problem.
The only excuse being provided by EirGrid and the ESB is the cost. I have two points to make in that regard. First, Teresa Treacy has agreed to waive the compensation to which she is entitled for having the power lines run through her land. Second, why does the CEO who I believe earns about â¬800,000 a year not cut his salary by, say, â¬200,000, to cover the cost of placing the lines underground, where they should be?
This is a fully State-owned company. I ask the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, to intervene to get this women out of jail immediately. I asked the Department of Justice and Equality on Thursday last week whether members of United Left Alliance could visit Teresa Treacy in Mountjoy Prison, but we have been given the runaround for almost one week. Will the Minister assure us that we can get into the prison to visit her?
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Effectively, the same issue was raised in the House last week by Deputy Charles Flanagan. The lady in question has been in jail for a few weeks and it seems Deputy Flanagan has been working on the issue. It was made clear when he raised the issue that the Minister for Justice and Equality was not in a position to comment on a particular case before the courts. The comments made then were about policy in regard to alternatives in law to imprisonment in the context of civil disputes that might arise between parties, the changes that had recently been made and, in line with the programme for Government, the examination taking place in the Department with a view to improving the operation of the law, where possible.
Deputies will appreciate that the courts are independent in their functions, subject to the Constitution and the law, and that, therefore, it would not be appropriate for anyone to comment in this House or elsewhere on a case still before the courts. They will also be aware that in a civil matter a court is asked to adjudicate on a dispute between two or more parties. Such disputes can arise in cases of recovery of debt, including maintenance debt, performance of a contract, trespass, interference with property and so on. These matters are determined by the courts on a daily basis.
The court makes its decision on the basis of the facts involved and the rights of the parties. Such rights may be constitutional, statutory or common law rights, or they may arise under the European Convention on Human Rights. The court, in deciding the matter, may order an appropriate remedy. This could involve payment of damages, restoration of the status quo or an injunction to either carry out an action or to desist from an action. Moreover, the court does not have a power in civil cases to impose a custodial sentence as part of its remedy in favour of one of the parties. However, it remains a critical feature of the legal system that court judgments should be obeyed by those at whom they are directed. If the person or persons concerned refuses or refuse to obey the order or implement the judgment of the court, the issue of a court sanction may well arise. The sanction may take the form of imprisonment. Civil contempt in the context of such a refusal may lead the judge to order the imprisonment of the party or parties involved until the contempt is purged, that is, until the party agrees to implement or abide by the order. This imprisonment is not a punishment, nor does it replace the necessity to comply with the order of the court.
The Minister for Justice and Equality has powers under the Criminal Justice Act 1960, as amended by the Criminal Justice (Temporary Release of Prisoners) Act 2003, to order the temporary release from prison of a person serving a sentence of imprisonment. He also has powers under section 23 of the Criminal Justice Act 1951 to commute or remit any punishment imposed by a court exercising criminal jurisdiction. However, it is important to note these powers are limited to persons who have been convicted and sentenced after a criminal trial.
I am informed by the Irish Prison Service that the person mentioned has been in custody in the Dóchas Centre, Women's Prison, Mountjoy Prison since 13 September, having been held in contempt of court. I understand a number of requests to visit the person were made to the management and staff of the Dóchas Centre last week. Visits are facilitated, subject to the approval of the Governor and the usual conditions which apply. Callers in this instance who included one of the Deputies who have spoken were informed that, in accordance with the prison rules of 2007, requests for visits had to be made in writing to the Governor who would then consider the application. I am informed that no written request has been received by the Governor at this stage.
Procedures are in place to facilitate telephone calls and, while there was a request for an interview, this was refused owing to the court proceedings involved. However, unauthorised contact was subsequently made and I understand the Irish Prison Service will be following up on this. I stress again that the Minister has no powers in cases where a person is committed to prison for contempt of court. The High Court still has seisin of such a case and it is only that court which can decide on the matter. In this case, the matter is between the parties to the case and the High Court and the Minister cannot intervene.
I take on board what the Deputies have said. I hope common sense will prevail and that mediation will take place in some form.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Minister of State insults us, the Dáil and the people by coming to the House with that rambling and irrelevant answer. It is incredible. It was written by the Civil Service and I doubt she read it before she came to the House because, otherwise, she would not take responsibility for it. This is supposed to be the Topical Issues Debate; it is supposed to involve relevant engagement with reality. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources who is in charge of the ESB should be here to answer. He has the power, with the chief executive, to immediately have this woman released and then by agreement proceed-----
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I am stunned by the Deputy's ignorance. He knows that cannot happen.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Order, please. It is a matter for the Minister. I take Deputy Higgins's point and will follow it up.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The ESB could go immediately to the High Court-----
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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That cannot happen.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----and to Teresa Treacy to discuss with her the agreement-----
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Go to Teresa Treacy - that is different.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----that the cables can be placed underground and then, provided there was agreement, the issue of contempt would finish - full stop. That is what should be done.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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That is not what the Deputy was suggesting.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That is the engagement we seek. The five United Left Alliance Deputies are concerned about this issue. We stand in solidarity. The Minister should be here.
4:00 pm
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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To add to what Deputy Higgins said, I cannot believe the Minister of State is hiding behind legal waffle. This is a fully publicly owned company under the aegis of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte.
Consequently, he can intervene and tell the ESB to put the cable underground. It is as simple as that.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Of course he can.
Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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It is a commercial semi-State.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is typical. It is a publicly owned company. Who else runs it?
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Deputy never fails to astonish me.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is just nonsense.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Deputy never fails to astonish me with his-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State is trying to wash her hands of it, like everything else. The Minister should intervene and tell the ESB to put underground these cables. It is as simple as that.
Incidentally, the suggestion that Members were told by Mountjoy Prison that they were obliged to submit anything in writing is not true. The deputy governor, John Quinn, told me he had contacted the Department of Justice and Equality, the matter was being forwarded to that Department's Secretary General and that it would revert to me about our request for a visit. They never got back to us. There were no telephone calls or e-mails or anything. We are getting the run-around because they do not want people to highlight the case of Teresa Treacy, even to the extent of a few public representatives visiting her. The Government should take its responsibility for this matter. It should act by putting pressure on the ESB to get Teresa Treacy out of jail and to get those lines underground.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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I take on board Deputy Boyd Barrett's comments regarding the visit and I undertake to follow up on that. This is a case of contempt and I have as much sympathy as anyone for that woman, who had been in prison for several weeks before the matter came before this House. While I have every sympathy for her, it is not possible for the ESB to purge that contempt. This is now an issue between Teresa Treacy and the High Court. If the Deputy thinks I am telling him lies, he should check it out.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The ESB can commit to her-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----that it will not rampage over her land.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Of course it can.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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No, it cannot. Every day I am astonished at the level of ignorance. Someone should mediate in respect of this lady because the circumstances in which she finds herself are ridiculous. This should be a matter of mediation and I will take on board Deputy Boyd Barrett's issue regarding the visit and will make inquiries thereon.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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An underground cable is the solution.