Dáil debates
Thursday, 14 July 2011
Order of Business
10:30 am
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is proposed to take No. 13, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2011 - Votes 1 to 3, Votes 5 to 23, Votes 25 and 26, Votes 28 to 38 and Vote 42, back from committee; No. 13b, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009 [Seanad] â motion to instruct the committee; No. 23, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009 [Seanad] - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; No.24, Criminal Justice Bill 2011 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 6, Residential Institutions Redress (Amendment) Bill 2011 - Order for Second Stage, Second and Remaining Stages.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted on the conclusion of Question Time which shall be taken at 6.45 p.m. for 75 minutes and, in the event of a private notice question being allowed, it shall be taken after 45 minutes and the order shall not resume thereafter; No. 13 shall be decided without debate, Votes 1 to 3, Votes 5 to 23, Votes 25 and 26, Votes 28 to 38 and Vote 42, shall be moved together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; the proceedings on No. 13b shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 65 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the speeches shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order and who may share their time and shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; Report and Final Stages of No. 23 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 2 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs; and Report and Final Stages of No. 24. shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice and Equality.
It is also proposed that the Dáil shall sit tomorrow at 10.30 a.m., shall adjourn not later than 4.30 p.m., there shall be no Order of Business within the meaning of Standing Order 26 and the following business shall be transacted: No. 6, Residential Institutions Redress (Amendment) Bill 2011 - Second and Remaining Stages (resumed); and No. 3a - Public Health (Tobacco) (Amendment) Bill 2011 [Seanad] - Second and Remaining Stages. It is proposed that the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage of No. 6 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 12 p.m. and the proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Education and Skills; and the proceedings on Second Stage of No. 3a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.35 p.m. and proceedings on Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.30 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in regard to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Health.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are six proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 4.45 p.m. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13, Revised Estimates for Public Services 2011, without debate, agreed to?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed. These Revised Estimates relate to last year's budget and, in fairness, most of them have been dealt with by the relevant committees. However, at a recent meeting of the Oireachtas Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education, we had a discussion on the relevant Revised Estimates at which we asked the Minister whether there would be any changes to the household benefits package, fuel allowance and other allowances. She told us there would not but, two hours later, she announced, via the Department's website, changes to the household benefits package. Therefore, the committee did not have an opportunity to debate fully the outworkings of the last budget. The Minister should come into the Chamber to discuss this proposal rather than asking the House to clear these Revised Estimates without debate.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I support Deputy Aengus à Snodaigh. The introduction of these savage cuts affecting the most vulnerable has been done in a mendacious and underhand fashion. The very least the so-called Minister for Social Protection can do is to come into the Dáil to defend these cowardly cuts and explain the rationale of the Labour Party in now finding these reductions, which hit the old and the poor, acceptable when it would have considered them the worst evil that could be inflicted a few months ago.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies cannot discuss the detail of the proposal, only the reason that there should not be a guillotine.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Order, please. I have called the Tánaiste.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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All of these Revised Estimates, for which provision was made in last year's budget, have been discussed by the respective committees. The announcements made publicly by the Minister for Social Protection this week are in respect of measures already contained in the 2011 budget.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 98 (Tom Barry, Pat Breen, Tommy Broughan, Richard Bruton, Joan Burton, Ray Butler, Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Byrne, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Paudie Coffey, Áine Collins, Michael Conaghan, Seán Conlan, Paul Connaughton, Ciara Conway, Noel Coonan, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Michael Creed, Jim Daly, Jimmy Deenihan, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Robert Dowds, Bernard Durkan, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Ann Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brendan Griffin, Dominic Hannigan, Noel Harrington, Simon Harris, Brian Hayes, Tom Hayes, Martin Heydon, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Kevin Humphreys, Derek Keating, Colm Keaveney, Paul Kehoe, Alan Kelly, Seán Kenny, Seán Kyne, Anthony Lawlor, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, John Lyons, Eamonn Maloney, Peter Mathews, Michael McCarthy, Nicky McFadden, Dinny McGinley, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Michael McNamara, Olivia Mitchell, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Michelle Mulherin, Dara Murphy, Gerald Nash, Denis Naughten, Derek Nolan, Michael Noonan, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, John O'Mahony, Joe O'Reilly, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Ann Phelan, John Paul Phelan, Pat Rabbitte, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Brendan Ryan, Alan Shatter, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Joanna Tuffy, Leo Varadkar, Jack Wall, Brian Walsh, Alex White)
Against the motion: 38 (Gerry Adams, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Browne, Dara Calleary, Joan Collins, Niall Collins, Michael Colreavy, Seán Crowe, Pearse Doherty, Timmy Dooley, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Tom Fleming, Noel Grealish, John Halligan, Séamus Healy, Michael Healy-Rae, Joe Higgins, Billy Kelleher, Michael Kitt, Pádraig MacLochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Sandra McLellan, Catherine Murphy, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Shane Ross, Brendan Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Robert Troy)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Seán Ó Fearghaíl.
Question declared carried.
11:00 am
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste has seriously misled the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would you please resume your seat? Is the proposal for dealing with No. 13b, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009, motion to instruct committee, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23, Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009 - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages, agreed to?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Can I get confirmation-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is Deputy à CuÃv agreeing to this proposal?
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I want clarification because the order says 45 minutes of debate will be allocated on Second Stage but I understand that it should be one hour. I want clarification that it will be one hour.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to object-----
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy à Caoláin does not, does he?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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----- to the taking of the Child Care (Amendment) Bill Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. Many issues have shown major turnarounds on the part of this Government in the short time since it took office and today we have yet another example. On 18 January, the Tánaiste and colleagues from his party and the Fine Gael Party went through the division in this House in support of a key amendment to this legislation in respect of after care for children in State care. Against the backdrop of what we addressed yesterday with the publication of the Cloyne report, there can be no washing or wringing of one's hands in respect of State responsibility yet the amendment placed before the House, which was similar to the wording of amendments tabled by me and Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, was proposed by Deputy Charles Flanagan and voted on in this House. The first person recorded supporting it is the Ceann Comhairle yet this morning the same amendment, five months later, has been refused. This is an amendment the House voted on last January and it has now been refused on the basis that it involves a potential charge on the Exchequer. That was not the ruling when this legislation was addressed in the Chamber in January-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are discussing the manner in which the Bill will be taken. Deputy à Caoláin's issue is a separate matter.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Indeed, it is not separate.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is the core point of what needs to be addressed in this legislation on Report Stage. It is absolutely the kernel of it, that State institutions on behalf of the State are not turning out young people on attaining their 18th birthday onto the streets to be abandoned and ignored. There is an absolute responsibility on this House-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy à Caoláin-----
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----to ensure after care for young people in State institutions. The ruling this morning-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy à Caoláin-----
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----will not allow a debate, never mind the potential of actually having the amendment made to the legislation before the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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----- please resume your seat.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Another broken promise.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There can be no acceptance of this methodology or of this legislation with such major deficiency and I put the House on notice that I will oppose it outright and shame on Fianna Fáil, or rather Fine Gael-----
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and the Labour Party, having supported this proposal in January when, in July, they will not even allow it to be discussed on the floor of the House.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Charles Flanagan tabled this amendment on 18 January-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy à Caoláin-----
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and shame on Deputy Charles Flanagan for this volte-face six months later.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Deputy CaoimhghÃn à Caoláin has only one agenda.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy CaoimhghÃn à Caoláin to recognise the Chair. I am surprised at you.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do, Deputy Barrett.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is Ceann Comhairle if you do not mind, please. I am surprised at an experienced Deputy like you totally ignoring the Chair when it calls on you to keep order.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I would not do that Ceann Comhairle.
Derek Keating (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy CaoimhghÃn à Caoláin did that.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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He has a narrow party agenda.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputies on the Government side also to adhere to the Chair. I call on the Tánaiste to reply to the questions posed on why this business should be taken in the way it has been ordered.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The proposals before the Ceann Comhairle are for a period of 65 minutes to deal with a number of amendments to this Bill by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. She will propose them in due course. The proposal is that the debate will conclude at 2.30 p.m. If we agree the timetabling for the debate, Deputy à Caoláin will find that the Minister will be addressing the issue raised during the course of the debate and he will find that he has no cause for the kind of indignation he has just expressed.
Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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He would not have the opportunity to grandstand.
Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Deputy CaoimhghÃn à Caoláin might not be here.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 103 (Tom Barry, Tommy Broughan, John Browne, Richard Bruton, Ray Butler, Jerry Buttimer, Catherine Byrne, Dara Calleary, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Paudie Coffey, Áine Collins, Michael Conaghan, Seán Conlan, Ciara Conway, Noel Coonan, Marcella Corcoran Kennedy, Joe Costello, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Michael Creed, Jim Daly, Jimmy Deenihan, Pat Deering, Regina Doherty, Paschal Donohoe, Timmy Dooley, Robert Dowds, Bernard Durkan, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Ann Ferris, Frances Fitzgerald, Peter Fitzpatrick, Charles Flanagan, Terence Flanagan, Eamon Gilmore, Brendan Griffin, Dominic Hannigan, Noel Harrington, Simon Harris, Brian Hayes, Tom Hayes, Martin Heydon, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Kevin Humphreys, Derek Keating, Colm Keaveney, Paul Kehoe, Billy Kelleher, Alan Kelly, Seán Kenny, Michael Kitt, Seán Kyne, Anthony Lawlor, Ciarán Lynch, Kathleen Lynch, John Lyons, Eamonn Maloney, Peter Mathews, Michael McCarthy, Nicky McFadden, Dinny McGinley, Joe McHugh, Tony McLoughlin, Michael McNamara, Olivia Mitchell, Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Michelle Mulherin, Dara Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Gerald Nash, Denis Naughten, Derek Nolan, Michael Noonan, Éamon Ó Cuív, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, John O'Mahony, Joe O'Reilly, Willie Penrose, John Perry, Ann Phelan, John Paul Phelan, James Reilly, Michael Ring, Brendan Ryan, Alan Shatter, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Brendan Smith, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Billy Timmins, Robert Troy, Joanna Tuffy, Leo Varadkar, Brian Walsh, Alex White)
Against the motion: 28 (Gerry Adams, Richard Boyd Barrett, Joan Collins, Michael Colreavy, Seán Crowe, Pearse Doherty, Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Tom Fleming, Noel Grealish, John Halligan, Séamus Healy, Michael Healy-Rae, Joe Higgins, Pádraig MacLochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Finian McGrath, Mattie McGrath, Sandra McLellan, Catherine Murphy, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Jonathan O'Brien, Maureen O'Sullivan, Thomas Pringle, Shane Ross, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Emmet Stagg and Paul Kehoe; Níl, Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh and Catherine Murphy.
Question declared carried.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before moving on to proposal No. 5 I wish to announce to the House that I have made inquiries regarding the amendment referred to by Deputy à Caoláin, which is amendment No. 14, and the decision has been reversed by me. The amendment will be taken.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for that decision. I welcome it, and it allows the House the opportunity to debate the matter. I hope the House will support it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 24, Order for Report and Report and Final Stages of the Criminal Justice Bill 2011, agreed to?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not agreed. I will not delay the House any longer than required but again the proposal is that this legislation be guillotined but as I said previously, most legislation that is guillotined ends its progress naturally without reaching the guillotine. I ask again that the guillotine be lifted in this instance and that it be allowed to proceed. A guillotine should not be put on any legislation. That would ensure that all Deputies who wish to contribute can do so and if they do not wish to do that, the Bill will pass at the relevant Stage.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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As the Deputy is aware, the House is sitting a lot longer this year than it has ever done to deal with several items of legislation. The placing of the guillotine is to ensure we get through all the legislation we need to have enacted. As Deputy à Snodaigh said, as it has turned out in practice the guillotine, while it has been provided for on the Order of Business, has not been used, certainly in recent weeks. I propose to leave it in place but I suggest to Deputy à Snodaigh and to other Whips that they might seek to reach agreement with the Government Whip on the timetabling of legislation to ensure we get it through the House. As we are making orders here for both today and tomorrow, I propose to leave it in place.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for the sitting and business of the Dáil tomorrow agreed to?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I know we are keeping you a little bit longer from your morning coffee than normal but it is Dáil Ãireann.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should speak through the Chair.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We do not have as much money to spend as the Deputy.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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You do actually, Michael.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Members to speak through the Chair.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We do not have as much money as Independents. That is for sure.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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A Cheann Comhairle, I vehemently object to the fact that there will not be an Order of Business tomorrow. This Government came to power only four months ago promising to change everything in this society for the better-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Deputy to speak uninterrupted.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----and instead, four months later, has its own trail of destruction behind it, closing accident and emergency departments, sacking special needs assistants and withdrawing resources from schools.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Are we all allowed make speeches?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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We now have savage cuts in the social welfare area.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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We have not cut to the leaders' allowance.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are dealing with whether there should be an Order of Business tomorrow.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Not only should there be an Order of Business tomorrow but I ask the Tánaiste to make himself and the Taoiseach available to answer questions on the betrayal of the promises-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, the Deputy is out of order.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----and these crucial issues that now confront working people, unemployed people and poor people in our society. I invite the Tánaiste to amend that proposal to make himself available tomorrow for questions-----
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----and an Order of Business.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Deputy Higgins is so preoccupied with his litany of the ullogón that unfortunately he cannot see change when it happens. The first change is that this year, for the first time, we are sitting past the first week in July and will continue to sit until the end of next week. Second, we are having a sitting tomorrow, Friday - we do not normally have sittings on a Friday - and we are dealing with the Order of Business for tomorrow now. The business for tomorrow, Friday, is important legislative business which will require the attention of Members of the House. Change is happening. I am sorry to disappoint Deputy Higgins. We are meeting longer than the House has ever met and we are meeting tomorrow to deal with important legislative business.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That is not the point.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The proposal before Deputy Higgins is that this House will sit tomorrow to deal with legislative business and the decision he has to make is whether he agrees that the House will sit tomorrow or not.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to raise two issues on promised legislation, the first of which relates to social welfare legislation that arises from the announcement by the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, on the household benefits package. I would like to give the Tánaiste the opportunity to correct the record of the House by stating the previous Government never intended to reduce household benefits for the recipients. It had proposed to make savings with regard to payments to the utilities but there was no proposal at any stage to reduce-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the issue.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----the benefit to the recipients. The Tánaiste should correct the record of the House in that regard. A totally incorrect story has been circulated by the Government during the week.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The second issue concerns the anger and disgust we all share on foot of the findings in the Cloyne report. It is fair to say no politician can add to the testimony of the victims in the circumstances in question. What was done to the children was unforgivable.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question?
Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I have. First, I assure the Tánaiste that we will continue to support any initiative that helps to ensure this never happens again.
I understand the Minister for Justice and Equality announced yesterday that mandatory reporting is to be introduced by legislation. When will the Opposition be briefed thereon? Is it proposed to introduce a mechanism by which the voice of the victims across the country can be heard on these issues? Will there be a debate on the Cloyne report in the House next week? It is imperative that it take place.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The decent people around the country, who comprise the vast majority, are throwing their hands in the air once more because of the revelations in the most recent report. It is most shocking that some of the events it covers are so recent and, therefore, the ignorance that could have been preferred in the 1980s does not feature in this instance. The bishop at the heart of the report was also at the heart of Vatican bureaucracy for so long. This goes some way towards explaining the omertÃ-like code of silence applied in protecting those who were abusing children and doing so at enormous expense to the victims and society. While the Government has responded to the report, it should afford us an opportunity next week to have a comprehensive debate on all that arises from this recurring sorry tale.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am sure the Tánaiste will agree the Cloyne report represents another chapter in the sordid story of the violation of children and sheltering of perpetrators of abuse by the Catholic Church. It needs to be recognised in this House that, to date, the State has failed children. It has failed in its duty to protect children from abuse, vindicate the rights of abuse victims and subject institutions, be they public, private, religious or secular, to rigorous and legally binding child-protection standards.
I welcome the Government's commitment to introducing the Children First Bill and the national vetting bureau Bill. I welcome the Government's commitment to legislating to right the wrongs of the past but, as we rise for the summer, let us not forget the urgency of the legislation. I ask the Tánaiste to reassure the House that these matters will be addressed with the utmost urgency and that the legislation will be before us at the earliest opportunity.
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour)
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With regard to the mandatory reporting of sex abuse, is there legislation promised to deal with the excuse that may be given about information being divulged at confession? With regard to the relationship between the church and State and the vice grip the church still has on too many of our institutions, I congratulate the Minister for Education and Skills on his work on pluralism and patronage in schools. If we are serious about breaking the link between church and State, we should not start proceedings in this House every day with a prayer.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not relevant to the Order of Business.
Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin North Central, Labour)
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Many in these benches find it difficult to stand through. If we are serious about having a real republic, starting afresh and breaking the link, perhaps we will reconsider this.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government shares the sense of outrage over the findings in the Cloyne report. Such findings are not emerging for the first time; they are part of a sequence in that we have had the Ferns and Murphy reports also. What is involved is a betrayal of trust and of the children who were abused, not supported and ignored. It is a betrayal of the trust that Irish people placed in the church, particularly the Catholic Church and its institutions, over a long period in all their dealings with children. The Government is determined to deal with this issue very effectively.
I will set out the legislative measures that the Government intends to bring forward. The failure to report cases of child sexual abuse to the Garda is the central difficulty identified in the Cloyne report. The Government is determined to have legislation in place to ensure that such a failure to co-operate will have consequences. The Minister for Justice and Equality published yesterday the heads of the Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Crimes against Children and Intellectually Disabled Persons) Bill. These heads can be discussed by the appropriate committee which will deal with the issue of consultation. The Bill will make it an offence to withhold information relating to the commission of a serious offence against a person under the age of 18 or an intellectually disabled person.
For some time, work has been been under way and consultation has been taking place between the Department of Justice and Equality and the Department of Children and Youth Affairs on drafting the heads of a national vetting bureau Bill, which will provide a statutory basis for the vetting of applicants for employment and employees working with children. The legislation will provide for the establishment of a national vetting bureau for the collection and exchange of both hard and soft information for vetting purposes. This Bill is being given priority and the Minister for Justice and Equality expects to be able to bring the heads to Government for approval before the end of this month. He intends to refer these to the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality while work continues on the drafting of the legislation.
The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has received Government approval to place the revised Children First national guidelines on a statutory basis. This will make compliance with the guidelines a statutory obligation and will ensure greater protection of children by strengthening the existing system for reporting and responding to suspected child abuse. It is intended to place a statutory obligation on every organisation working with children to protect and safeguard those children when in their care, including statutory, private, community and voluntary organisations. The legislation will underpin the provisions in Children First. This includes a requirement to share relevant information and to co-operate with other services in the best interests of the child. The legislative requirements therefore extend beyond reporting of suspected abuse and entail a more broad-based approach to the safeguarding of children.
Putting Children First on a statutory basis has been sought for many years and is a recommendation of the implementation plan from the Ryan report. In progressing this legislation, the Government has agreed that a range of sanctions will be developed to address any failure to comply with the Children First provisions. Later this week, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will publish revised Children First guidance designed to strengthen current arrangements for child protection. It is important that every possible step is taken to ensure full compliance with Children First.
In addition to the proposals to make compliance a statutory obligation, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will oversee an implementation framework which will set out the responsibilities of each Department and sector working with children. It will include strong emphasis on inspection and the need to provide demonstrable evidence that the guidelines are being properly implemented across all sectors. In the case of the health sector, the Minister proposes to extend the remit of the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, to include oversight of the HSE's child protection services, including the operation of Children First. HIQA will have standards in place by the end of the year, and inspections of the HSE's child protection services will begin early in 2012.
The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has requested the HSE's recently appointed national director for children and family services to write to HSE staff setting out the HSE's responsibilities on child protection and compliance with the revised Children First guidance including on extra-familial abuse. The strong legal advice to the Government is that section 3 of the Child Care Act 1991 provides sufficient powers to the HSE with regard to its ability to investigate third party or extra-familial child sexual abuse. This position will be set out for staff by the national director to ensure there is no uncertainty on this matter in the HSE.
In addition, the national director has developed an associated child protection and welfare practice handbook to support the implementation of Children First. The two documents will provide clearer direction and support to front line staff working with children. They will clearly set out the respective roles of the statutory agencies responsible for child protection including the HSE and Garda on the handling of complaints of child sexual abuse and are designed to achieve consistent practice throughout the State.
In my capacity as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, I have already expressed concern about the findings in the report with regard to the Vatican which, of course, in addition to being a church authority is also a state which enjoys diplomatic relations with this country. Later today, I will meet the Papal Nuncio to communicate these concerns and views directly to him. There will be a debate in the House on the findings of the report on Cloyne. I understand it is being discussed by the Whips and the latest information I have is that it will be Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on the availability of Ministers and spokespersons. The Government is quite happy for the Whips to agree this and to make available whatever time is necessary.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I very much welcome what the Tánaiste has stated.
On a different issue, I know an overall review of the Official Languages Act 2003 was promised and some changes have been made regarding the translation of documents. Today,The Irish Times has an article on amending legislation to give official status to Daingean Uà Chúis. Will the Tánaiste state when the overall review promised in the programme for Government will happen? These are very small changes to the overall legislation.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Minister is working on the review and when he is in a position to bring proposals to the Government he will do so. Any legislative changes which arise from this will be brought before the House in due course.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Tánaiste aware that Jane Norman Limited has effectively ceased trading and gone into pre-pack administration with Zolfo Cooper? It has kept concession shops running under administration and re-opened 20 solo shops-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy tell us where he was going here please?
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I am coming to it.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you. Just give us an indication.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Tánaiste aware the workers in this enterprise have not been paid since 15 May and have been told by Zolfo Cooper they will have to reclaim-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This sounds like a matter for the Adjournment, Deputy.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I am coming to the point if the Ceann Comhairle will allow me.
They have been told by the administrators that they will have to reclaim redundancy from the Irish Government when they are eventually made redundant. These workers find themselves-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is stretching it a bit. Come on.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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They cannot get social welfare-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there legislation promised?
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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-----and they are not being paid. They have been told over the telephone that they should pay themselves from the-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order. He should put the matter down for the Adjournment.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I am asking-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, you are not asking.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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-----about the companies consolidation and reform Bill. Is there an intention to deal with this issue? The taxpayer is taking up the redundancy, lost pay and sick pay for the workers.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have much business to get through.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The companies consolidation and reform Bill is very comprehensive legislation and my information is that it will probably be the middle of next year before the Bill is ready to be presented.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Has the Government given any consideration to introducing appropriate legislation to deal with the potential extradition of Irish citizens to the United States? The Tánaiste might be aware that Sean Garland's case is before the High Court. Will legislation be required in the event of the case being decided?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there promised legislation?
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Has the Tánaiste used his office to indicate-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for a parliamentary question.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----the Government's concern at the potential extradition of an elderly man to the United States in view of the fact they were colleagues in previous times?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order. Is there promised legislation?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There is no promised legislation.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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My question is on proposed legislation on upward only rent reviews. I have raised this issue on numerous occasions. Another report, the Jones Lang Lasalle report, has been referenced by NAMA on house valuations. It shows commercial property values reduced in the first six months by 7.2% but legislating for upward only rent reviews will see a further drop of between 20% and 30%, which will far surpass the most adverse criteria used in the stress tests. Is it the Government's intention to abolish upward only rent reviews? If so, will it not acknowledge-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the legislation.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----that it will make the stress tests inadequate?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A parliamentary question.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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A number of indices have already been surpassed with regard to domestic and GNP growth.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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It is appropriate-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, not on the Order of Business.
Pearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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-----that we suspend the transfer of money at the end of July until we decide on the issue.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there promised legislation?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Yes, there is promised legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do not deal with the content.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government has promised legislation to deal with the difficulties many people in commercial life and businesses face whereby they have been locked into rents which cannot be revised downwards. This legislation is being considered by the Government and I expect the Minister will be in a position to make a statement on it in the near future.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the Tánaiste's announcement which followed the comments of the Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, on putting the Children First guidelines on an legislative footing. Will this legislation provide for full implementation of the Children First guidelines?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not deal with the content of the legislation, just when the Bill will be taken.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I want to clarify whether the legislation will deal with the issue set out in the guidelines on neglect by omission when it comes to the failure of State agencies to provide the necessary educational and intellectual stimulation to all children.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to table a parliamentary question or submit a matter for discussion on the Adjournment.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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How will this legislation be tallied-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Such matters are not dealt with on the Order of Business.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----with cuts and quotas in the area of special needs which could cut across legislation in that regard?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume his seat. The Tánaiste has dealt with the proposal for next week and given-----
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking about full implementation of a Bill.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The content of legislation is not a matter for the Order of Business. Deputies who wish to raise such issues should table a parliamentary question or submit a matter for discussion on the Adjournment.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I asked about legislation.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies may ask when legislation will be taken but not about its content. We cannot have a debate on the Order of Business.
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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When will the legislation be taken?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste has answered the question on the taking of the legislation and promised a debate next week. We will move on.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I seek a brief update on the status of the mental capacity Bill, legal aid Bill, which is pressing legislation, and health insurance Bill, which is equally important in the current circumstances.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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When are the Bills promised?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The mental capacity Bill will be taken later this year. The legal aid Bill is being worked on as a priority and I hope it will be ready early in the next session.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What is the position regarding the health insurance Bill?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not yet have a date for the Bill.
Noel Grealish (Galway West, Independent)
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Does the Government propose to introduce legislation to protect sub-contractors who are not being paid? A number of builders who have been awarded State contracts have gone out of business halfway through the contract. They are then paid and subcontractors, who are left to carry the can, go out of business.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government is very much aware of the problem to which the Deputy refers and is conscious of the difficulties subcontractors have in this area. The Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, is working on legislation which it is hoped will be introduced in the next session.