Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach will be aware of the comments of the Minister for Finance yesterday in this House, when answering questions about the Exchequer figures. The Minister commented that the fiscal figures for April show that the tax profile is beyond the budget Estimate for December and that expenditure is below the budget Estimate. The Minister also said that for the first four months of the year, "things are better than on track and we hope that continues for the rest of the year." However, he said this does vary. He concluded by saying "we will not have any degree of certainty until we get the June figures. It will be early July, therefore, before I would be firm on the figures, but so far so good."

Will the Taoiseach confirm to the House and to the country that he agrees with his Minister for Finance that Exchequer Estimates were broadly correct, and that the recovery programme that was in place is working?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Minister for Finance. I also agree with him that the Government of which the Deputy was a member entered into commitments for which there was no back-up to provide the wherewithal to deliver on them. For instance, €50 million was supposedly left aside by the previous Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food for an agri-environment options scheme, but we found nothing there at all. There is a raft of commitments entered into by the Government of which the Deputy was a member, but for which no moneys have been provided.

I agree with the Minister. He will be in a much clearer position when the June figures come in. The figure bandied about around budget time for dealing with the requirement for bank debt was €10 billion. After the PCAR exercise that was raised to €24 billion. There has been an increase in interest rates and in the cost of fuel, a decrease in consumer demand, and an increase in the savings ratio. All of these things have had an impact on the circumstances surrounding our economy. For that reason, one of the central features of this Government will be to promote the creation of a stronger economy through the development of jobs and opportunities. That will be central to the Minister's statement on the jobs initiative next Tuesday.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In fairness to the Minister for Finance, he was very emphatic about it. He said that the figures were better than on track. He said that the Estimates were broadly correct, as defined by the outgoing Government. The Taoiseach rightly mentioned the agreement with the troika. Central to the ongoing certainty mentioned by the Minister for Finance yesterday will be the revised agreement with the troika, which I believe has been published today. Page 16 of that report states that it is important that we make effective use of our State assets, and where appropriate, dispose of them, to help reduce our Government debt.

This is a new, clear commitment to privatisation. Given that the Cabinet will have had to agree this document, how is it that the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, who controls many of the State's most valuable assets, was able to state categorically in a national media interview on 24 April that he would not dispose of State assets merely to write down debt? Has the traditional Fine Gael ideology won the day? Or has the Government performed yet another U-turn that it hoped people would not notice?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This Government is not into performing U-turns or pirouettes like the Government of which the Deputy was a member. The Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform has asked every Department to respond to him by the end of May in respect of the possibility of the potential for disposal of non-strategic State assets. This matter was raised on several occasions during discussions between the Ministers in the Department of Finance and the troika. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources set out clearly a strong view that in the event of any non-strategic State asset being sold at the appropriate time, it should be used for the purpose of investment in job creation measures. Very few people would disagree with that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not what the Government has agreed to.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The conclusion of the discussions between the troika and the Government was that this could be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, it states that there should be a disposal of assets to help reduce the Government debt.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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From that perspective, elements of the original deal done by the last Government with the IMF and the EU have been changed following discussions between this Government and the troika about stronger and greater efficiency measures and greater investment in the growth of our economy. When the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform receives, by the end of May, the view of each Department on the McCarthy proposals and the disposal of non-strategic State assets, then if the Government decides to dispose of any of these assets in due course, the return on that will be a matter for discussion between the Government and the troika.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy McDonald.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are discussing this document today. We cannot discuss a document that the Taoiseach is resiling from an hour or two after its publication. It states that the Government will dispose of assets to reduce the debt.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please resume your seat.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He comes in here now and says something different. He is taking-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Did you hear me Deputy?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The troika has a clear understanding with the Government in respect of the sale of any non-strategic State asset and what it can be used for.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy McDonald.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Government has tied us to an EU-IMF deal that explicitly envisages the sale of State assets to write down debt, and that imposes vicious austerity on ordinary people. The result of this is real hardship for people.

I do not know whether the Taoiseach saw last night's RTE "Prime Time" programme, which showed the kind of hardship experienced by many communities in Dublin and beyond in this State who have been abandoned, and the conditions in which they are living. Does the Taoiseach agree the conditions we saw on last night's programme are unacceptable?

Sinn Féin has raised this issue many times previously, here in the Dáil and elsewhere. We have worked with residents in St. Teresa's Gardens, Dolphin House, Croke Villas, O'Devaney Gardens and many other areas across Dublin and in Limerick and beyond.

The conditions in which many citizens are living-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do you have a question?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----are not fit for human habitation. They live in flats that are damp and overrun with rats. We saw last night children with asthma and other medical conditions-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question, please.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----living in circumstances which a senior microbiologist described as reminiscent of refugee camps.

Noel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McDonald is a public representative for the area.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I want to know what the Taoiseach and his Government propose to do about that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government proposes to sort out the economic mess it has been left with by a Government which wrote into an agreement that it denied was taking place. They denied that the IMF was coming to our shores. They denied in public, time and again-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Answer the Deputy's question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that this country was not in a position to borrow money-----

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Move on now.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and that its banks were not in a position to borrow money. This Government will use the mandate given to it by the people to sort this out in Ireland's interest, to restore the public finances to good health and to be in a position to provide through proper and efficient government, facilities for those whom Deputy McDonald mentions.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is sorting it out in a very different way to that which he promised in the election. He was going to burn the bondholders.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have a bit of quiet, Deputy Dooley?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of the circumstances of many of these people.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Dooley's party ruined the country. Will he have a bit of modesty?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In a modern country, we should not have the situation of the disparity that exists in many of our sectors. I remind Deputy McDonald of the words of the second previous Taoiseach who stated that anybody who thinks the boom in housing and construction would end should go off and commit suicide, for which he had to apologise and which has been a matter of debate in this House for the past three days.

The Deputy asks me what will we do about this. We will tell the people the truth. We will explain to them the scale of the reality of the mess the Government has inherited-----

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is a complete U-turn.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and we will deal with it through direct Government.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Deputy Dooley please give a chance to others?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Please answer the question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I remind the Deputy, and Deputy Martin, that the line she refers to in that document was a line inserted by the Government of which Deputy Martin was a member which put into it that non-strategic State assets being sold would be used for debt reduction. That line is continued in the current document-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Do not rely too much on the property bubble.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach was going to be able to negotiate it. Why did he not take it out?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Dooley, please.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Troika has a clear understanding with the Minister for Finance in respect of Ireland's achievements in dealing with the fiscal targets that have been set, that on a case by case basis they are quite prepared to listen, as they have done already in respect of changes where there is a stronger commitment to job creation and a demonstration that we are serious about that.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not need the Taoiseach-----

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil lost the election, remember that.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Would Deputy Buttimer give the Deputy an opportunity?

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Well spotted.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Dooley has not spotted it all-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----to tell me or, indeed, those who live in these appalling conditions about the record of the previous Administration.

I must say it is getting a little tedious in this House that when a straight question is put to the Taoiseach, he runs for cover behind the record of his predecessors. That is not acceptable. His answer in this House today will be cold comfort to those living in these Third World run-down conditions.

Noel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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What did the previous Government do?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A supplementary question please.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The fact is that Fine Gael, in government, has been quite satisfied-----

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Fine Gael is in power now.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----to continue with the failed policies of those who it criticises, but it will not hold out any hope or any real alternative to the people who suffer from its collective view that it cushions the rich and punishes the poor.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could we have a question, please?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Tell me this. Will there be a social dividend from NAMA? If there are unfinished or unsold houses, how will the Government use these to address the housing crisis? Can some of the housing stock currently in NAMA be given to not-for-profit housing associations to relieve the waiting lists? Can the Taoiseach give an assurance on behalf of the Government that he will give more than lip-service, rhetoric or abuse towards these boys here on these benches-----

(Interruptions).

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy McDonald, please.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----I think many on the Government benches are boys-----

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin was going into the Seanad bed with them.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Would the Ceann Comhairle ask the poodle to be quiet over there?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Put that poodle back in its box.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----and address the issues that affect people? I have asked the Taoiseach directly about these communities in Dublin and Limerick.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can I have a have a supplementary question?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have asked him about NAMA. I would like answers to those questions-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy. We will get an answer now for her.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----rather than a ruaille buaille with Deputy Martin and the Taoiseach.

A Deputy:

How would Deputy Martin feel about that?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is not the big issue now. Housing is the issue.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Obviously, Deputy McDonald's leader is away canvassing in Northern Ireland.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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In Ireland.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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It is part of this island. It does not stop at Dundalk.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach to reply, please.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Neither does it stop at Fair Head.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Maybe the Taoiseach would answer the question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I listen to the same repetition from Deputy Ó Caoláin week after week.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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There will be repetition unless the Taoiseach gives his answer.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let me tell Deputy McDonald something. I have been a public representative for many years. I know exactly the kind of conditions of which she speaks. On each occasion I must visit any constituency in an official capacity or, indeed, when I go to Britain or the United States, I make a point of dealing with those who look after the vulnerable in society, in the case of those who are abroad who are of an Irish Diaspora. Deputy McDonald should not come into this House and assume that the Sinn Féin Party is the only one which has an interest in those who are underprivileged, deprived or disadvantaged.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Would the Taoiseach answer the question?

(Interruptions).

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is beneath Deputy McDonald, coming in here from Cabra-----

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Dear God.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----to lecture us as if she is the only one who understands these difficulties. Every Deputy in this House of all parties and none deals with this on a regular basis.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Fine Gael is running the country.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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They are in power.

(Interruptions).

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McDonald asked me, in her first question, what the Government will do for the disadvantaged, and I will tell her again. The Government will deal with the challenges of the economic legacy it has inherited. The mandate which has been given is to sort out the public finances and deal with the issues with which those of whom she speaks must suffer as a consequence.

Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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What about the NAMA problem?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of her question on NAMA, the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government with special responsibility for housing and planning, Deputy Penrose, has done a great deal of work in the short time that he has been appointed on an number of issues in so far as housing is concerned with the NAMA stock and he will report to the House on that in the not too distant future. From that point of view, I expect there will be a social dividend. One cannot do it all over Ireland but one must start with some measure of facility provision for people who are disadvantaged.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The editorial in The Irish Times yesterday stated, "The US special forces team was under orders not to take him [Osama bin Laden] alive, as confirmed by a US national security official to Reuters." We now know he was shot dead unarmed.

The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and leader of the Labour Party and presidents of the EU Commission and Council, all categorically supported the assassination of bin Laden. Since when is it the policy of the Government and of the European Union to support a shoot-to-kill policy of somebody suspected of serious crimes? Is it only justified if the target is a reactionary anti-democratic, anti-human rights obscurantist like bin Laden, whose organisation slaughtered thousands of innocent people, not only in New York but, massively, in Pakistan and elsewhere? Are there other circumstances? Before the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste join the chorus of sycophantic congratulation, did the Taoiseach consider some more profound and subtle issues, for example, that bin Laden was being increasingly isolated because the heroic revolution for democratic, economic and human rights sweeping Arab nations and led by the youth and the poor in their millions did more to undermine al-Qaeda than all the US military might and their missiles and bombs? Did he consider the rank hypocrisy of the United States and EU countries such as Britain which armed and supported dictatorships whose brutal repression was grist to the mill of the reactionary al-Qaeda organisation?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's two minutes are up.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Did the Taoiseach not consider therefore that this assassination was no more than a naked political stunt to project military and political power which was-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question to the Taoiseach.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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------slipping away from the US because of the actions of the Arab people? I want the Taoiseach to justify his stand.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That was a speech from Deputy Higgins, not for the first time.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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There were questions. Can we have some answers?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The fact of the matter is that Osama bin Laden-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Answer the question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----was responsible for mass murder in New York, Madrid, Bali and London.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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We all accept that.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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He said that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Many of his victims in the Twin Towers in New York were of Irish descent or directly Irish. The avalanche of material published yesterday following the announcement of his death has in many cases been altered as new facts emerge. I did not join any sycophantic group, as Deputy Higgins crudely put it. I did make the point that the world is now a better place without Osama bin Laden.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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From this perspective, as a non-aligned neutral country it is important that vigilance be maintained in respect of the safety of citizens throughout the world.

It is a fact of life that atrocious murders have been committed in the name of political and religious beliefs at various times throughout the world. Osama bin Laden is no more, and from this perspective the world will now move on and I hope that good politics can bring about a situation where peace, which is so difficult to achieve, can reign throughout the globe. A total of 3 million people have died in the Congo but I have not heard Deputy Higgins speak about them. I have not heard him speak about the citizens of Benghazi who were about to be massacred by Colonel Gadaffi and his forces. Those difficulties are ongoing and the European Union has a distinct interest in them with regard to the protection of human life.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Higgins has one minute to ask a further supplementary question.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Thousands of people have been murdered by reactionary terrorists. I suggest to the Taoiseach that the answer to this is not to do likewise and use their methods. In 2003, the Taoiseach stated that under international law and order the war in Iraq was wrong, unjust and unnecessary. Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis were killed.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could we have a supplementary question please?

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The two figureheads of that invasion, Messrs Bush and Blair, were responsible for that. If a group of aggrieved relatives of those tens of thousands of dead mounted an assault on Mr. Blair's luxury compound, wherever that might be, would the Taoiseach equally justify that-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is an outrageous suggestion.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----because the same logic would apply-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----and they would no doubt argue-----

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The minute is up.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----that they could not get justice in Britain? I put it to the Taoiseach that he has no mandate from the Irish people-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Deputy Stagg is more right-wing that Fine Gael.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Through the Chair, Deputy McGrath.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Ceann Comhairle is also heckling.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----for his support for this assassination, albeit of an utter reactionary. In my view, if there was a debate among the Irish people-----

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Two minutes.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----while they would excoriate Osama, his likes and everything that he did as we have done and we did-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Deputy.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----to the US and Britain which supported these reactionary regimes, they would not agree with his position.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on the Taoiseach to reply.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Justify why you support shoot-to-kill policies in some instances.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Answer the question.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is some question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach has one minute to reply.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I was not aware that Deputy Higgins was a supporter of Osama bin Laden.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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That is outrageous.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Answer the question.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is not your question.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are too many leaders over there.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That remark should be withdrawn.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As Deputy Higgins is aware, my views on the Iraqi conflict were well known-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and if Hans Blix had been let finish his observations and analysis-----

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Withdraw your remark. You know very well-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----the proof would have been there-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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You are not in the Chair.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----my position on reactionaries like al-Qaeda.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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You had your chance and you did not ask a question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your-----

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Withdraw your remark.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Answer the question. What is your position on shoot-to-kill policies?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you please resume your seat? Would you mind your own business? You stay quiet.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will be asking you to leave the Chamber if you are not very careful. Do you want me to ask you to leave the Chamber? Would you mind resuming your seat?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If Hans Blix had been let finish his analysis weapons of mass destruction would have been proven not to be in Iraq. It seems to me from the confused statement made by Deputy Higgins that he is extremely concerned about what has happened here without showing the due concern and consideration for the thousands of people-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not fair. He did not say that.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----who were murdered by mass activity by Osama bin Laden.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not fair by any objective criteria.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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You know, and as former Prime Minister Blair found out, had Mr. Blix been let finish his analysis, weapons of mass destruction would not have been found in Iraq, which might have changed and altered the course of history.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Will the Taoiseach not answer the question on shoot-to-kill policies?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That concludes Leaders' Questions.