Dáil debates
Wednesday, 12 May 2010
Other Questions.
Departmental Properties
3:00 pm
Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Question 45: To ask the Minister for Enterprise; Trade and Innovation the cost of maintaining the unused buildings and grounds formerly used by Enterprise Ireland, Glasnevin, Dublin 9; the action he will take regarding these costs; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19281/10]
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The cost of maintaining the Glasnevin site is approximately â¬1 million per annum, made up of local authority rates, security, heat, light, power and general maintenance. This figure includes general maintenance costs of the national metrology laboratory of the National Standards Authority of Ireland. For 2010, these costs are expected to be in the order of â¬140,000 approximately, which will be recouped from the NSAI.
Resulting from the centralisation of Enterprise Ireland's Dublin offices in East Point business park in 2008, it is anticipated there will be annual savings of approximately â¬3 million, in addition to significant operational efficiencies. The Minister, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, has been in contact with the Minister of State, Deputy Martin Mansergh, with a view to the Office of Public Works assisting in whatever way possible. The Minister has also asked Enterprise Ireland for an assessment of how the current costs for maintaining the site might be reduced in the short term.
In that context, Enterprise Ireland has advised that the current rates bill for the site, which is available for leasing, will reduce by 50% or â¬280,000 in respect of 2010. In addition, Enterprise Ireland has advised it has also secured an 8% reduction in the fees paid in respect of security services provided on the site. Pending any further advices from the OPW, in December 2009, Enterprise Ireland engaged estate agents to explore potential leasing options for the property.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I wish to ask three supplementary questions but on a point of clarification, if I understand his reply correctly, the Minister of State states the Government is spending â¬860,000 a year to maintain a disused site and building in Glasnevin.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is entirely incorrect. It is not disused as people are occupying the same site.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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They are only using-----
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It would be better if the Deputy did some research.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister of State should wait to be called upon to reply and should address the House from a standing position when he is called.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I have done some research and I have listened to the Minister of State's answer very carefully. He is saying that the national metrology laboratory is using a small part of the site at a cost of â¬140,000 a year. I have no problem with this. However, the remaining â¬1million - â¬860,000 in the difference - is being used to maintain a site that is not in use and has not been in use for several years. That is the Minister of State's answer. He may wish to clarify if it is not his answer.
I have two brief supplementary questions on that point. There had been a plan that this area would be used for the forensic science laboratory and this has now been changed. There had been a plan for it to be used for affordable housing. Is it still intended to use the site for affordable housing or has this plan also been changed? Is it not the case that other areas of the Department, including some agencies directly under the Minister's purview, are renting offices at a cost of hundreds of thousands of euro? How can the Minister of State justify a situation whereby one part of the Department is spending hundreds of thousands of euro renting private offices when the Department is spending hundreds of thousands euro to maintain empty offices?
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to make it clear that the affordable housing initiative no longer has an interest in that site. I remind the Deputy that strong interest has been expressed in the site. The people advising the Department on its disposal, sale or further leasing say there is strong interest. Perhaps the Deputy did not hear that part of my response where I mentioned that Enterprise Ireland has saved â¬3 million annually by moving from this site to another site. Quite a significant saving has been achieved for the Exchequer, in the order of â¬3 million, by the consolidation of Enterprise Ireland into a new site, thus vacating the many buildings it occupied previously. This is a 14-acre site with 18 buildings and which has a significant associated security cost, in the order of â¬240,000. It costs â¬120,00 for heat, light and power for the many buildings and facilities already in existence on the site. There is a general maintenance charge of â¬40,000 for the site. I hope that answers the questions.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Please allow other Deputies to contribute. I call Deputy Penrose.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I omitted to mention â¬600,000 of that was raised when that bill was halved to â¬300,000.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister of State and Deputies should wait to be called to ensure we have an orderly debate.
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I refer to significant tracts of land available across the country, including in the Leas-Cheann Comhairle's own county, contained in the portfolios of IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland. If these lands are not been used or are unlikely to be required, they should be transferred to the local authority such as the county council or town council-----
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is this a specific question about Glasnevin?
Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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County enterprise boards and county development boards or the employment action groups within those jurisdictional areas should be allowed to promote and foster employment opportunities that are not encompassed within the IDA or Enterprise Ireland areas.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad the Deputy mentioned this. The Office of Public Works is currently working on precisely the kind of initiative the Deputy speaks about whereby the State redeems best value from the property available to it. This came about as a result of the ideas campaign, which was a public campaign and this was one of its recommendations. The OPW is working to ensure that all lands, not just those belonging to the Exchequer, to ourselves or to line Departments, and all public buildings around the country are properly audited. To date, the OPW does not have a centralised register of all publicly-owned property, not just the core assets of Departments but also the wider local authority and health services sites.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister of State aware that the HSE and a host of other State agencies are renting properties all across the State at a huge cost to the taxpayer of many millions of euro, while Government-----
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is going well beyond the scope of the question.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----properties lie vacant? Many people believe this is only happening because the people who are renting those properties to those State agencies happen to be associates or friends of the lead Government party of Fianna Fáil.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I have to respond. The Deputy is mistaken.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I ask the Minister of State to allow me to conduct the debate. I call Deputy Naughten.
Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I have one brief question for the Minister of State. I acknowledge his reply to Deputy Penrose. I ask the senior Minister to consider consolidating the land portfolios of both IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland. Businesses cannot be given a site because they come under the auspices of Enterprise Ireland and the lands are owned by IDA Ireland. This is costing jobs. Such an initiative would be simple and would help create jobs tomorrow morning. I urge the Minister to take up this as an initial initiative.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I wonder if I should bother responding to Deputy Arthur Morgan's insinuation about my party. There are many foul things I could say about his own party.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will refrain from talking about its record in the past 30 years and all the blood it spilled on the island of Ireland.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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If the Minister of State and his predecessors had done their job right that phase of the Irish freedom struggle would have been unnecessary. They did not do their jobs and, therefore, it was necessary.
Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Does that justify it?
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Neither am I going to bother responding to Deputy Arthur Morgan's smear about auctioneers or people associated with the Fianna Fáil Party.
Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It would be helpful if the Minister of State would not invite disorder.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are back to where we started.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Denis Naughten asked a fair question and we will address that issue. If he has examples of where businesses are not getting sites because one agency is pointing at the other, we would be delighted to take it up with them.
Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should come to Roscommon.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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They are under standing instruction to redeem best value for the State from the properties and lands held by them.