Dáil debates

Thursday, 11 October 2007

4:00 pm

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will bring forward measures to give the energy regulator, CER, co-competition powers with the Competition Authority over the oil and liquid fuels market; if he will direct CER to investigate and report on pricing policies in the oil and liquid fuels market; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23055/07]

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Irish oil industry is fully privatised, liberalised and deregulated. There is free entry into the market. The Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, is the independent body statutorily responsible for overseeing and regulating Ireland's electricity and gas sectors. The CER has no role in regard to the oil industry. The Competition Authority is a statutory independent body with a specific role in the enforcement of competition law. The National Consumer Agency has specific responsibilities for protecting the rights of consumers. Its function is to ensure that competition works optimally for the benefit of consumers throughout the country.

There are no proposals at present to bring forward measures to give the CER a role in regard to the Irish oil industry, given the nature of the market and the roles and responsibilities of the Competition Authority and the National Consumer Agency.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I am not sure what body is charged with ensuring a competitive oil and liquid fuels market. There is clearly concern on the part of motorists purchasing petrol that there are cartels operating, but nobody appears to be in charge of investigating or dealing with that possibility. The only organisation I can find is the Automobile Association, AA, which is hardly the appropriate body. There is also the issue of the difficulty in accessing supplies, given that so many petrol stations are closing due to the lucrative property market. This is a problem particularly in rural communities, where petrol stations are closing and people are concerned that this will concentrate the facilities to an even greater degree. What does the Minister intend to do about that?

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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If there is evidence, even a suspicion, that a cartel is operating, the Competition Authority and the National Consumer Agency, a statutory body established last May to defend consumer rights, can investigate and bring to book anybody in the industry who is engaging in cartel practices. In Dublin, where property prices are high, the availability and expense of sites are issues. However, it is not possible for the Government to intervene and regulate a free market by trying to set prices or, indeed, set particular filling station locations and micromanage it at that level.

The Department and the CER have a general role in the energy policy area to ensure general security of supply. We are preparing a report at present examining energy security and long-term security implications. I have also, through the amendments that were made possible in the changes to the National Oil Reserves Agency Act, recently raised the security of supply levy to ensure we will have 90 days storage available in the event of any disruption. The State is engaged at that level. With regard to issues involving incorrect practices that exploit the consumer, the Competition Authority and the National Consumer Agency are sufficiently strong to address them.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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That was a weak and ineffectual reply from the point of view of the person who is trying to get petrol at a reasonable price. There is clearly deep suspicion about price fixing. Is the Minister aware that an advertisement in this regard has been placed in various newspapers similar to the advertisement placed by Newry solicitors regarding planning, which unearthed major scandals in the planning system? The Minister must accept some responsibility. There is widespread concern and many questions about petrol prices and the fact that they tend to rise at the same time and stay at the same level. The price may vary regionally but within regions the price is more or less the same. If it looks, smells and feels like a cartel, one must do something about it. However, it is not clear who has the authority to do it. The Minister says he can deal with oil reserves but he will not deal with the issue confronting the individual buying petrol.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I understand from people in the sector that the margins in the fuel delivery business are incredibly tight, probably because it is an open and competitive market. The Deputy sees a suspicion of price fixing where prices move up and down in tandem. Perhaps she is right, and her deep suspicions or widespread concerns are based on fact. Alternatively, however, perhaps the fluctuations in the oil market price cause prices in the petrol stations here to rise and fall accordingly. If there is evidence to support the deep suspicions and widespread concerns, there are mechanisms in place for those concerns to be presented and the Competition Authority or other bodies can examine them. If the Deputy is saying that I should respond to deep suspicions when I do not have the statutory authority to do so but other Departments do, that does not appear to be a logical approach.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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When similar questions were raised about the mobile phone market, the regulator, ComReg, responded with a website which outlined to consumers in clear terms the difference in prices and options on offer from various operators. Would it be forward thinking to take a lead on this issue and speak with the energy regulator about similarly comparing diesel, petrol and biofuel prices throughout the country? As someone who drives between Cork and Dublin on a regular basis, I can state the costs vary widely. While the Minister states his understanding is that the margins on petrol are tight, the reality is that the price for people at the pump varies significantly from petrol station to petrol station. It may remain the same within regions and this is the potential cartel activity mentioned by Deputy McManus. Does the Minister agree many problems would be solved if the regulator took a lead on this issue and published prices on a website so people could make comparisons?

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I wish to clarify for the Minister that this is not only my suspicion — if it were I would not be here asking important questions on it — it is of widespread concern. Within regions there seems to be uniformity and this raises questions. When this happens, the Minister with responsibility for energy must deal with it. Otherwise the consumer is left unprotected. The Competition Authority investigates dentists, solicitors and everybody else, but somehow this issue is allowed float free. This is a matter of concern and it lands on the Minister's desk.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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If evidence is presented to show regional or other competition issues which must be addressed and investigated I will happily pursue them. To answer Deputy Coveney, the difference between the mobile phone market and the petrol station market is that one is regulated and has a licensing system and the other is a free and open market which one can enter and exit easily. Deputy Coveney's point that price differences between various petrol stations are perfectly apparent is valid. This allows the consumer, including the Deputy as he drives to and from Cork, to decide where to stop and purchase petrol.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The problem is that not everyone drives from Cork to Dublin.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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If a station is cheaper and the sign outside the door states clearly the rate per litre, one is free to purchase the petrol. It is slightly different with mobile phone operators, who could improve transparency on real prices because one is contractually obliged to use the phone unless one changes operator. It is different from stopping one's car and choosing one petrol station over another.