Thomas Gould (Cork North-Central, Sinn Fein)

About 15 years ago, when I was a county councillor on Cork County Council, I put forward a similar motion looking for a proportion of all major Government contracts to be given to either local workers or to ensure that apprentices were being hired. At the time, I was told we could not do that because of EU procurement law. I went and researched it, and it turns out that Germany, Italy and other European countries have those quotas in place. This meant Ireland was implementing European law to the absolute maximum, while some other major European countries were abiding by it but not fully and were able to put their own nuance on it.

We are all in here trying to work together and come up with solutions. There is a crisis right now in apprenticeship. The Minister pointed out there are 78 different types of apprenticeships, which is great. People are studying courses now that were just handed down from family members or neighbours and they fall in with someone that way. My dad was a carpenter and my grandfather was a carpenter. I went to the North Mon and did woodwork, and I would say they got the fright of their lives when they saw me with a saw and a hammer. I just did not have a creative bone like carpenters and tradespeople have.

I met with University College Cork and Munster Technological University. I want to see a campus for trades on the northside of Cork city. We are trying to get more and more people into apprenticeships. I remember a couple of years ago there was a phrase in camogie, or it could have been in ladies sports in general, that went, "If you cannot see it, you cannot be it". I come from an area where there is a very low level of people going to third level, but there is a much higher take-up by people of apprenticeships. We want more to get more people into apprenticeships and third level. I want people to have the choice. For people on the northside of Cork city, there are no third level institutions. They are all on the southside. I know we are not going to build a new college, but we could build a campus on the northside of Cork city specifically for the trades. Great work is being done by MTU and the education and training board, but they will tell us they do not have the capacity. We have an issue now with lack of capacity and we have areas on the northside of Cork city where we could have a campus specifically for the trades. We could use the National Training Fund for this. It is constructive, would have cross-party support and would certainly go down very well in the communities I represent.

I am not sure if the Minister knows this but I know, from talking to people in the trades, that the minute they get their qualification, they are gone. I know of one course in particular where 15 out of 16 plumbers left the country. Someone looking for plumbers might say there will be 16 of them coming out next month, but they will not be coming out next month at all because they are all getting on a plane to Australia. The vast majority are going to Australia, with a few going to Canada and a couple going elsewhere in Europe. The reason, to go back to a debate we had earlier, is housing. What are newly qualified tradespeople going to do? Will they go back to their mam and dad and stay in the box bedroom at 23, 24 or 25 years of age? That is a huge issue. Until we get a grasp of housing policy, it will feed into the crisis we have with apprenticeships.

Another issue, which was touched on by a previous speaker, is that we have people trying to finish off their course being told they have to be up in Dublin for three months, but they cannot get accommodation. It is the same if people have to go to Sligo. We need to provide the training in areas where people are studying. I had a father contact me. His son could not finish his apprenticeship because he could not get somewhere to study. When he did get it, he could not get somewhere to stay. What was he going to do? Was he going to go up and down to Dublin every day from Cork? It cannot be done. There are huge issues there that need to be looked at. We are talking about priorities.

First- and second-year apprentices could go work in Supermac's or Abrakebabra because they would get better money. They are getting better money working in shops, fast food outlets, bars or wherever. If this Government is really serious about getting more and more people into apprenticeships, it has to improve the rates for first-, second- and third-year apprentices right across the board. It must also be made easy for employers to be able to hire them.

I know lads in the building trade. In the area where I grew up, almost half the fellows I know are in the building trade. Most of them are over 50. They are saying, "Tommy, we are not working seven days a week any more because our families are raised. We are doing Monday to Friday now." You cannot get tradespeople. The people there are getting old and they are asking me if the Government understands this. A lot of young people do not feel there is an incentive there to get into the trades. The thing about it is that when they do get into the trades, they really enjoy them because they are very worthwhile. The point is that when we look at the wages of first- and second-year apprentices, they are just too low.

I ask the Minister to look at this amendment again. At the end of the day, we want to get more people working and more people in the trades. We need them to build houses. I know it is not all housing, but the bulk of those trades are in housing. This would be a win-win for everyone. We need to start treating trades like they do in Europe, especially in places like Germany where training is on the same level as third level and is respected.

I will tell the Minister another thing. I was out canvassing in Kerry Pike at the weekend. I stopped afterwards in the petrol station and I met a fellow buying a house out there in Kerry Pike for €500,000, or the bones of it. He told me he is working every hour God sends and asked me if he was doing the right thing or if he should head off. He has got a partner and they have one child. He wants to live here. They want to stay close to the northside, but then he is looking at the cost. He will be going to work every hour God sends for the next 20 years. We need to look at that.

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