Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Quaide as na Social Democrats as an rún seo inniu. Ní bheimid ag cur i gcoinne an rúin. We will not be opposing the motion put forward by Deputy Quaide and the Social Democrats. I welcome the opportunity the motion gives us to discuss the very important issue of carer's supports that are provided by my Department. The motion is timely and I welcome in particular the focus given by Deputy Cummins to the educational aspect. That issue was raised with the Department in June during the carer's forum we host annually and I am committed to looking at it. She raised a very important issue.

The Government remains committed to phasing out the carer's allowance means test over the term of this Dáil. We cannot do so in a single budget, as the motion proposes, and I will deal with that point later, but we will do so in a progressive manner. Over the years we have sought, and ensured, that the interests of carers are front and centre of budget discussions. This approach has been evidenced across the suite of care income support payments. As part of budget 2025, we extended the social insurance-based carer’s benefit scheme to the self-employed for the first time. In June, we increased the carer’s support grant. It now stands at €2,000 a year, its highest ever rate. Significantly, we also delivered on the commitment to provide a pension solution for long- term carers. This hugely important reform enables long-term carers, predominantly women, as was acknowledged by Deputies in the Social Democrats, who have been caring for an incapacitated dependant for 20 years or more to qualify for the State pension. Under the scheme, for the first time, full-time carers can get long-term carer's contributions to cover the gaps in their contribution record that arose as part of their caring, and that can then help them to qualify for the contributory pension.

Since January 2024, long-term carer's contributions can be awarded to somebody who has cared for an incapacitated person for a period of 20 years or more. These contributions are treated the same as paid contributions for the contributory State pension entitlement only. They can be used to fill gaps in that person's contribution record, including satisfying the minimum 520 paid contributions required. Over 12,600 applications have been received since the introduction of the scheme. At the end of August of this year, over 2,800 customers had been awarded over 20 years of long-term carer's contributions.

There have been other positive developments. The carer's allowance is now included as a qualifying payment for the fuel allowance, once the other qualifying conditions for the fuel allowance have been satisfied. We have increased the carer's allowance disregards, which I will come back to later.

The income supports for carers are the carer's allowance, carer's benefit, the domiciliary care allowance and the carer's support grant. Investment in these payments in 2025 is expected to be in the region of €1.9 billion. The carer’s allowance is the main scheme by which the Department provides income support to carers in the community. Almost 102,000 people are currently supported by the carer's allowance. This year, investment in the carer’s allowance scheme is estimated to be over €1.24 billion.

As all Deputies are aware, the carer’s allowance is a means-tested payment awarded to those who are providing full-time care and attention to people who need such care. We will significantly increase the income disregards in each budget with a view to phasing out the means test over the lifetime of this Government. The carer’s allowance operates on the basis of a means test. In short, we agree with Deputy Quaide that the means test should be abolished. There is nothing between us on that. However, it is not as simple as just abolishing the means test in one fell swoop, much as many of us might want to do. I have to be mindful of other demands on the State finances and other priorities including addressing child poverty, direct payments to people with disabilities and other areas within my Department. Means tests were developed as a way of targeting limited resources at those who have the lowest incomes. They are used not just for carer payments but for pensioners, disabled people, lone parents, jobseekers and others. It is a system that applies across the board, based on supporting households with the lowest means.

However, removing the means test, in effect, creates a new scheme for those meeting the scheme’s basic caring condition. This change has wider cost and policy implications, including under EU rules that differentiate between social assistance or mean-tested payments, on the one hand, and social insurance and universal payments, on the other. The former can be subject to conditions relating to residence; the latter two types of payment are not. This is why, while we are committed - and I absolutely guarantee the Deputy and the House of my strong commitment - to eliminating the means test, we have to do so in a phased and measured approach that enables us to balance improving outcomes for carers with also improving outcomes for people with disabilities, pensioners and children and in a way that does not create unanticipated exposures. In doing so we will build on the significant improvements which have already been made to the capital and income disregards, allowing many more carers to qualify for the carer’s allowance. The disregards for the carer’s allowance are now by far the highest income disregards in the social welfare system, higher than those for any other weekly payment.

The capital and savings disregard was increased from €20,000 to €50,000. This equates to a disregard of €100,000 for carers who are part of a couple. Since 2021, the carer's allowance income disregards have been increased from €332.50 to €625 for a single person, and from €665 to €1,250 for carers with a spouse or partner. These disregards have practically doubled, amounting to cumulative increases of €292.50 for a single carer and €585 for a carer who is part of couple. As a result, a carer in a two-adult household with an income of approximately €69,000 will retain the maximum payment. The same carer with an income of €97,000 will retain a partial payment. Before the disregards were increased in June 2022, that figure of €69,000 figures stood at €37,000 and the figure of €97,000 stood at €60,000.

The number of carers on the carer’s allowance has increased by over 8,000 to almost 102,000. The increase in the disregards also means that many current recipients receive a higher payment than they would have otherwise. It is notable that from July last, when the latest increase occurred, 98.4% of existing carer’s allowance recipients have received the maximum possible rate, whether they are on a half-rate or full-rate payment.

In addition to significant improvements to the means test, over the last four budgets the weekly carers payments - the carer's allowance and carer's benefit - have been increased by €41 per week. As part of budget 2025, the rate of the carer's allowance increased by €12 to €260 per week for a carer aged under 66 years caring for one person.

Before concluding, I wish to address the variation in the estimated cost of abolishing the means test for carers. The figure of €375 million that has been quoted is taken from a costing carried out by the Parliamentary Budget Office. It assumes that some 25,600 carers would become eligible for the scheme if the means test was removed. My Department has conservatively estimated that the cost of removing the means test for the carer’s allowance would be in the region of €600 million each year. This is based on our internal administrative data, which tells us that there are some 146,000 care recipients in our country. In the absence of a means test, it is reasonable to assume a carer’s allowance payment could be paid in respect of each of these care recipients. However, to facilitate further discussion, I will provide Deputy Quaide with our methodology and a breakdown of this costing after the debate on this motion.

The Deputies speak of tripling the bank levy to pay for this measure. We have already demonstrated how the Government has supported carers over recent years. However, we have just heard calls for other groups to be catered for during some of their colleagues' speeches today.

As Minister for Social Protection, I am committed to continuing the work that has been done for carers and to growing it further, both for carers who are in receipt of the carer’s allowance and any carers who will benefit from further changes to income disregards. As Deputy Quaide's colleague said, however, I also have a responsibility to other vulnerable groups, including lone parents, children experiencing poverty, working families, and people with disabilities. I have no doubt that every Deputy will support me but I have to be realistic; my resources are not unlimited.

We are not opposing this motion. I welcome this debate and the good ideas that are coming. I will engage further on those ideas. In the programme for Government, we are committed to phasing out the carer’s allowance means test and we will do this in a progressive manner over the lifetime of the Government. All of us recognise the valuable contribution that family carers are making every single day. We are doing a lot to improve the payments to carers and will continue to do so because we recognise that much more needs to be done. We will not be found wanting in terms of delivering on this. We have to ensure that it is sustainable.

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