Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Independent)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann: — recognises that anti-social behaviour continues to be a major problem in Ireland for people of all ages;

— noting that the factors leading to this behaviour are multi-faceted and that some work has been done to date to identify and resource solutions;

— accepting that Garda numbers per head of population remain far short of optimal levels;

— acknowledges that many people feel a sense of powerlessness to deal with this persistent problem, especially when those involved are aged under 18 years of age and can commit multiple offences before being dealt with by the current system;

— undertakes to provide additional resources to tackle the root causes of underage anti-social behaviour, with an additional strong emphasis on immediate consequences for actions; and

— commits to providing a full list of implementable legislative and resourcing reforms to lay before the Houses of the Oireachtas within six months of this motion being passed, based on contributions made during this debate, best practice in Ireland and internationally, and specifically assessing the following measures:

— the introduction of curfews for repeat offenders;

— community courts for rapid adjudication on anti-social behaviour offences, including the sanctioning of Anti-Social Behaviour Orders (ASBOs);

— ASBOs to be sanctioned without requiring Gardaí to turn up in court;

— immediate seizure on a permanent basis of high-value items such as scooters, quads, scramblers involved in anti-social activities or breaking the law;

— temporary removal of personal items such as Playstations, Xboxes, smartphones, for consistent reported anti-social behaviour;

— seizure of any items suspected to be obtained as a result of theft, i.e. a "mini-Criminal Assets Bureau";

— fines for parents where appropriate, or similar, proportionate measures that encourage co-operation and act as a deterrent;

— enhance the ability of shops to search and detain shoplifters pending the arrival of the Gardaí;

— meaningful restorative justice to pay back any damages;

— community service such as clean-ups with Garda vetted bodies such as Tidy Towns Groups or other organisations as may be appropriate;

— increased Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV) investment programme for playgrounds and high-value, high-amenity areas targeted regularly by anti-social behaviour;

— a clearer legal definition of what constitutes reasonable self-defence when being threatened, or assaulted by underage perpetrators, including having items such as sticks, rocks, glass and other implements being thrown at individuals;

— zero tolerance for littering and increased fines as part of a wider social contract;

— further consideration for a ban on social media for under 16s as raised by Deputy Gogarty several months ago;

— better school attendance monitoring;

— a penalty points system for stronger action with repeat offenders;

— enrolment in education programmes where abuse is found to be motivated by the race, gender, sexual orientation or religious/cultural background;

— a faster, ticket-based reporting system for victims of anti-social behaviour to log and view progress on incidents, including an easier way to upload video and photo evidence to An Garda Síochána;

— a streamlined process for making statements and statutory declarations that frees up Garda time;

— additional educational and youth diversion resourcing;

— stronger focus on community policing to identify and deter potential anti-social behaviour;

— orders prohibiting anti-social groups from contacting one another for fixed periods; and

— recognition for positive social behaviour through a credits-based pathway system for valued community service or learning outcomes.

As an Independent Opposition TD, I get to table Private Members' business twice per year, if that. My first Private Members’ business motion during this term is devoted to the issue of antisocial behaviour because so many people in my constituency have expressed a sense of fear and powerlessness about what is happening, especially when the culprits are under the age of 18. I raised this matter with the Taoiseach before the summer for a lesser time period. I did get some sympathetic responses, but collectively we need to have a sense of urgency to deal with the situation. I am not one just to play petty politics and cast aspersions. I will give credit where credit is due. We have a task force on antisocial behaviour. The previous Government published the Youth Justice Strategy 2021-2027. However, as far as I know, that task force has not sat since before the election. We are still awaiting on youth justice strategy interim report. There have been efforts to increase the number of gardaí.

There has been a significant increase between 2008 and now. When I work it out, we have almost 20% fewer gardaí per head of population than we did in 2008, before the downturn led to a loss of numbers. Just at the end of the Celtic tiger era, we had a lot more gardaí per head of population.

People are giving out that when they do ring for gardaí, they cannot get a response. Last week, at a school in my constituency, a bunch of youths, some of whom were of primary school age, broke into a school and started stealing bikes. They were told by the staff to leave. They did not and instead started to throw stones at the staff. Gardaí were called but did not have a car available. They said their car was at the courts at the time. That is not an isolated case. I am not one for Garda-bashing, because I know the Garda is under-resourced. Members of the force do an absolutely fantastic job, given the constraints they face. We need to increase Garda numbers, which is partially mentioned in this motion, but we also need to make their work more effective.

The Minister himself has said we need to take gardaí away from the courts. At the moment, senior gardaí have to attend court if they want to apply for an ASBO, while other gardaí have to turn up at courts very regularly, which takes away from Garda time on the ground. In the context of this debate, I would like to see a commitment to a timescale for meaningful action in that regard.

I will bring the Minister's attention to some of the instances that are happening in my area and that I know are happening across the country, including in his constituency. For example, a 13-year-old boy was subject to a random attack and his eye socket was damaged. A pregnant lady was walking in one of the local parks and someone on a scooter circled her several times and brushed off her. In the same park, there are regularly gangs of youths hanging around in the playground, smoking and intimidating other people, again with no Garda or park ranger response because there are not enough park rangers or available gardaí. Another playground, which, as a councillor, I pushed for three years to be refurbished, was set on fire the week before last. Again, that was done by a couple of people. In my area, there are only four or five groups but they are committing regular instances of antisocial behaviour, sometimes with impunity, so they are becoming more emboldened over a period of time. It is happening everywhere, in Clondalkin, Newcastle, Saggart, Rathcoole, Lucan, Palmerstown - you name it, there are incidents there.

Sometimes, as was mentioned in the previous debate, if these perpetrators come across a newcomer to Ireland, then the racial tropes are thrown in as well. A lot of people do not know how they are supposed to react when a gang of youths are coming at them throwing sticks or stones. A mentor of a local football club, who was with his seven-year-old daughter, did not let a bunch of lads into a locker and was told that they knew where his car was, that they would find out where he lives and that he would be strung up higher than Jesus on the cross. That sort of intimidation is not acceptable.

I tabled a parliamentary question asking what case studies or case law shows what reasonable self-defence is when someone is being attacked. The question was ruled out of order, which leads me to suggest it very much depends on the case in question. People are quite afraid. For example, if people are coming at you with sticks, are you allowed to grab the stick out of their hands? Are you allowed to hit them to stop them hitting you? These are situations in which people want to know how they can defend themselves. Equally, we have to ensure vigilante gangs are not beating up kids, because there are hangers-on. That is what the motion is about, the hangers-on. It is not about the ringleaders, because the ringleaders will go through the system, but the hangers-on need deterrents.

I have proposed a number of things and I ask for support from the Opposition on them, as well as for suggestions from the Opposition and backbenchers for what we can do to try to deal with the root causes of antisocial behaviour. I am not saying there are not problems on that side but there are also no consequences or short, sharp shocks for people who are doing stuff right now. I have thrown out a couple of suggestions that have been called for by other groups. For example, in 2010, there was a call for community courts. This has also recently been reflected by RGDATA, which is calling for night courts for shoplifting. There was a situation in my constituency where people came in, stole bottles, came back in and threw the bottles over the staff. Another guy came in doing the whole shoulder exercise and walked out with a load of stuff from another convenience store. Retailers are fearful for their staff. They have absolute fear they will either end up being sued for defamation or else will have to let people walk out and take stuff willy-nilly, and that puts costs on consumers everywhere in the country.

I am looking for the following measures to further reform defamation and to allow for detention where it can be shown on camera that people are involved in shoplifting. Maybe we should also have on-the-spot fines for shoplifting. I am also looking for ASBOs to be sanctioned without requiring gardaí to turn up in court; for the immediate seizure of high-value items such as scooters, quads and scramblers where they are involved in antisocial behaviour; and the temporary removal of personal items such as PlayStations, Xboxes and smartphones from those reported to consistently engage in antisocial behaviour, that is, if it is feasible and I want responses in that regard. It may have to be a voluntary measure whereby the parents have to agree to give up these items. I know a commitment can be gained from parents that comes before the antisocial behaviour order, but that process takes too long so if parents are not playing ball, we should consider other sanctions such as fines where appropriate. We should have meaningful restorative justice to pay back damages. There are Tidy Towns groups and other organisations around the country, or it could be mirrored whereby Garda-vetted groups could facilitate the less serious offenders getting out and doing community clean-ups and community service. I would like to see curfews, for example, for the ones who are causing more trouble and restrictions on them contacting their friends for a period.

We also need to have CCTV. For too long, where the likes of playgrounds have been burned to a crisp or where special sculptures have been targeted, we cannot identify the culprits. The gardaí say they might be wearing masks, etc., but the communities I represent want CCTV and want more funding for CCTV.

I mentioned the need for a potential ban on social media, which was discussed at committee yesterday, so I will not go into too many details here. We also need a faster ticket-based reporting system so that victims of antisocial behaviour can log an incident and view the progress being made because due to the nature of how the system operates at present, victims do not know if their case is being followed up in any way. In the same vein, a streamlined process is required for gardaí so that if they are making a statement or some form of statutory declaration for a court, they could do it, in the same way as happened to a small degree during Covid, without having to go into court. We need community courts, fewer gardaí in courts and a stronger focus on community policing.

Equally, we need recognition for positive social behaviour. Even if people have been brought in through juvenile liaison or are told they have to do some community service, they should be recognised for the community service they actually do. These are just a couple of suggestions. At the moment, there are groups going around and my constituents are scared because they see them going about with no consequences. These groups are getting bolder and bolder and as they go through the system, they are more likely to end up with full criminal justice ramifications. We are trying to stop people before they get to that stage. Yes, we need to look at the carrots and I fully support that, but there are no sticks. If there are sticks that work, we need to try them as soon as possible.

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