Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)

I feel the Minister is chasing his tail trying to find reasons to support this provision when he knows in his own heart, and with his own legal experience, that there is no credible reason to do it. This was a move on the part of a predecessor of his, predominantly pressed by large-scale media outlets and owners, to address one particular issue and then a number of other issues were thrown in, including the abolition of juries. When the abolition of juries was put forward, it was a surprise to a lot of people, including the Oireachtas committee that was dealing with it. The entire logic that was presented by the Minister's predecessor and the Department was down to the cost of awards. That is the reason that was provided and that reason has now been put in the dustbin. The Minister has acknowledged that through the Higgins judgment. When there is a rationale for a law – not that I ever agreed with it, but I ask the Minister to bear with me - but that rationale clearly stops existing, does he not agree that it amounts simply to pigheadedness to pursue the law regardless, without any consideration of the consequences? I do not want to put words in his mouth, but if I am correct, the Minister is on the record as saying his mind has been changed on this. Previously, we know that he was very cautious and warned these Houses about abolishing juries in this instance. Now, he is advocating the exact opposite of that.

How would the Minister feel if, upon further reflection in a number of years' time when he is out of office, he realises he made a real mistake and undermined the judicial system? I ask him to reflect on that.

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