Joe Neville (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I will focus on the issue at hand and what we are here to discuss. I came here to welcome the Bill in a changing world from the Government benches. As a country, we are familiar historically with terrorist activity; we have seen it on our own shores. We have seen waves of it throughout Europe and America over the recent years and especially in the 21st century. That terrorism has taken many different forms, such as cyberterrorism, online radicalisation and online glorification of terrorism. In my lifetime alone, we have seen huge growth in this and the impact it can have. It has led to many deaths and many bombs in places where ordinary people were going about their business. In Ireland we have not seen that yet, but there is always a risk. Therefore, we have to update our laws to reflect this and keep them in line with modern norms.

There has been some opposition to this Bill, which we heard from the past few contributors. However, I do not see what is wrong with a Bill that protects young people, targets early stages of radicalisation, enables gardaí to act proactively, tackles cyberterrorism, tracks down extreme radicalisation online and strengthens national security. Those are just some of the key highlights. I will try to address those key highlights individually.

To protect young people, this Bill recognises the particular harm caused when minors are recruited. To say that does not happen is wrong. We need to try to ensure that does not happen and is treated as an aggravating factor in sentencing. We need to target early stages of radicalisation. New offences such as receiving terrorist training and travelling for terrorist purposes allow authorities to intervene earlier. That is key because we need to get in before attacks occur. This Bill enables gardaí to act proactively and gives An Garda Síochána more robust tools to disrupt and prosecute terrorist activity at the planning and preparation stage. What could possibly be wrong with that? As someone who grew up in a Garda family and saw the benefits of gardaí - indeed we had the Garda Commissioner and his team at the PAC today - we know the contribution they make throughout all of our streets. To strengthen their hand is the most important thing we can do in this Chamber to protect the public.

This Bill tackles cyberterrorism. By including cyber-related offences this Bill future-proofs our legislation against digital threats such as hacking and data breaches. These are the kinds of things we have seen. We have seen data breaches throughout our country, including the HSE and elsewhere in the past number of years. We need to put in place legislation to protect the country in myriad ways. It is key that we bring that in here.

This Bill criminalises elements of publicly stating how amazing terrorism is. We have seen the impacts of that online and across social media platforms. It rightly includes the glorification of terrorist acts as a criminal offence, cracking down on extremist propaganda and online radicalisation. Who could not say that has been an issue especially in the 21st century with social media? This Bill strengthens national security and modernises counter-terrorism law, ensuring Ireland is better protected from evolving and international terrorist threats. As I asked, who could object to that?

Earlier, Deputy Carthy asked what the definition of terrorism was. He seemed unsure. He mentioned different things but, ultimately, it is very clear. If the Deputy had looked it up in the dictionary, he would have seen it is “the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population, thereby to bring about a political objective.” Terrorism has been practised by political organisations in different ways, by nationalistic and religious groups, revolutionaries and even state institutions such as armies, intelligence services and police. It is not hard to understand what terrorism is. We have lived it, to a degree, over many centuries and in different places, but we especially see it in the 21st century in many different ways.

I thank the Minister for outlining at the very start why this legislation is so different from the UK and why the Kneecap case would not be applicable under this Bill. I profoundly disagree with the case the English Government has taken against the members of Kneecap and welcome what the Minister has outlined today. That case would not be possible under this legislation, which the Minister stated very strongly. That message needs to go out today. We have enough problems with misinformation on social media and that misinformation should not come from this Chamber.

I also heard references to rebel songs. Deputy Ward referenced the words of different rebel songs from Dublin. I have sung rebel songs and have been in the company of others as they sang rebel songs. My granduncles were involved in the War of Independence. My family had difficulties dealing with the Black and Tans. That history is a republican history we all have. This will not impact that. It is not about taking people who sing songs out of pubs. To use that kind of misinformation - if that is the level of discussion we are having in the Dáil - then we have all got it wrong.

This is about making our country and streets safer. It is about keeping our children safe and ensuring we do not have situations where bombs are going off left and right in towns and that we do not have terrorists here. We cannot come in here following week, asking why we did not know. We would have the Garda Commissioner asking the Minister why he was not more proactive in taking out this sect or that group. That is what this is about. It is about being proactive, being early and getting in with European norms. I welcome any Bill that gives support to the gardaí to do their work and indeed make our country safer.

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