Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)

We have stood in this Chamber many times before and dealt with a huge amount of legislation, many of which was from Europe. We all want to see a framework of fit-for-purpose legislation, whether that is dealing with cyber issues, legal loopholes or issues regarding international finances. We have always supported those pieces of legislation that make sure we deal with the issues that exist, particularly when it comes to organised crime or issues that fall solidly into the bracket of terrorism or international terrorism. However, I add my voice to the same arguments my colleagues made earlier in the sense that it is hard to talk about terrorist legislation and those travelling for the purposes of training or carrying out terrorist offences when we do not put those travelling members of the Israel Defence Forces into that bracket. We all accept a genocide is ongoing. There is no greater terrorist on God’s green Earth than Israel at this point in time. The Palestinians are suffering the brunt of this. We need to do whatever we can. We know the legislative pieces in front of us, such as the occupied territories Bill or the issue of Israeli war bonds that should not be facilitated by the Central Bank. We need to ensure we maintain pressure on the European Union for its failure around the EU-Israel association agreement and the human rights conditions which have not been followed through on.

The fact is that we are dealing with a piece of legislation. I accept what the Minister said. While I wish we were always dealing with people as fair minded as the Minister with his intention with this Bill, as Deputy Ward said, it is open to interpretation. There is this other piece, which states:

... inciting persons to commit a terrorist activity, distributes or publishes, or causes to be distributed or published, by any means (including via the internet) to the public or a section of the public a message—

... (i) inciting, or that could reasonably be construed as inciting, persons to commit a terrorist activity, or

(ii) that glorifies (including by praise or celebration) a terrorist activity,

That is incredibly frightening. This section, which Deputy Carthy described as the “Kneecap clause”, is far too open to interpretation, abuse and misuse.

Many Members will mention Liam Óg hAnnaidh, or Mo Chara, of Kneecap and the disgraceful way the British terrorism Act is being used to attack him. What is he being attacked for? He is being attacked because he is calling out a genocide. British law has been created in such a way that allows that attack to happen. We need to ensure there is no chance that the legislation the Minister is looking to enact could be used in that sort of way. It would be utterly unacceptable to the Irish people. I add my words to what Deputy Carthy said. I hope there is a willingness to engage to find wording that removes this worry. I agree the words “glorification of terrorism” are straight out of what has been the DUP playbook over many years.

When we talk about terrorism, we need to accept that the biggest terrorist currently in operation is the Israeli state. Once upon a time, Tom Barry and Dan Breen were seen as terrorists. We do not want a circumstance where people remembering them, Patrick Pearse, Seán Lemass or Éamon de Valera are considered to be glorifying terrorism. We may have different views into others who engaged in national liberation struggle in this State, country and beyond. Many of us have difficulty with this idea of glorification of terrorism and its impact on us remembering those of 1916, 1921 and the Civil War. Many things happened in Irish history that we would all have hoped did not occur. This also goes for the period of 1981 when Kieran Doherty was elected to this House alongside Paddy Agnew in my constituency. It is absolutely fine for families to remember those sacrifices and the sacrifices of the likes of Francis Hughes, Bobby Sands and many others. We need to look at the language and the particular wording in some of this legislation in order to ensure we are not lining up legislation that could be used by others to create a terrible situation, similar to what the British state is doing to Mo Chara. All Kneecap has done is support the Irish language and support the sound, righteous idea of a united Ireland and removing the British Government from Ireland.

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